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#21
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Re: 32 Bit Float
Oh please. Never heard of digital zoom? Feature in cameras that makes 16Mpx out of 4Mpx crop?
It was annoying when given (badly recorded anyway) 32bit float files for mix/master to PT7/8 I had to use another program to convert them. This is one of the reasons. If somebody implement 64 float and 384kHz files, the rest would do it either. This is then what thay nad then we call Progress and Hyper Super Duper High Definition :) |
#22
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Re: 32 Bit Float
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#23
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32 Bit Float
Yep. Unless you are using an interface with 32-bit converters you're not gaining anything by recording at 32-bit, but losing disc space. Albeit with drives these days it's not much of a concern. Unless maybe like me you record hour and a half long sessions with 20+ tracks.
I will say you're right about 16 and 24 bit though. Most converters can be ran in either mode and that will actually make a difference.
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Dell T5810. Harrison Mixbus 32C. Haven't used PT since 2015 and never been happier. |
#24
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Re: 32 Bit Float
If you think you can hear the difference between 16bits of signal in a 16bit file format and the same 16bits in a 24bit or 32bit format file then you are the hilarious one. Good luck with that!
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#25
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Re: 32 Bit Float
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"There's really no such thing as a 24bit converter, let alone a 32bit one. They might write 24 or 32bit files but none of them can actually resolve 24bits (or 32bits) of audio data. The best ones are around 20bits." The above statement is untrue, there are MOST definitely 24bit ADC's, texas instruments makes skads(http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-d...s/product.html). As for whether or not they are used in YOUR ADC, I don't know that. Regardless, the fundamentals of digital conversion and processing are getting lost here. 1 bit = 6db So bit rate is directly proportional to headroom, the more headroom means the more signal available for sampling. The whole premis behind higher bit rates was to give us the ability to capture MORE of the the signal with a 6db buffer zone. So, if you're tracking with peaks hitting -6dbfs @ 16bits, you're really only getting 15bits, so that meant when we transfer this to CD it's not "true" 16bit that last bit is nothing(0). With that in mind, you record @ 24bits with the same -6db rule, you've now effectively captured 23bits of audio signal. I don't use 32bit because I believe in proper gain staging, and know that 32bit is just a conversion in the box and not a true bit depth(so I've been skeptical). But, I am going to try it to hear if it makes a difference. Problem being, that if you know how to gain stage, and move from 24bit to 32bit; it will most definintely sound better. You would have WAY more headroom to push your internal processing, then when it's dithered back to 24bit for mastering there will be LESS error bits, and even less when it's finally dithered down to 16bits. In the end, math and physics tells me it's going to be a better sounding file. What's funny in this conversation is that no one has mentioned sample rates, that's where the true picture is captured. Recording at 24bit @ 44.1kHz is going to sound WAY different than 24bit @ 96kHz, you may not 'hear' the difference, but you will feel it...in your ears
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FBR recording - https://www.facebook.com/fromthebase...cordsrecording @FBRrecording - Instagram Rig MBP 15" High Sierra 10.13.3, i7 2.6Ghz, 8Gb DDR, 750Gb 7200rpm, PT 2019.5, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Octopre MkII, Glyph GPT50, Avalon 737sp, AMS Neve 1073's, API 512c, CAPI 312's, DW drums, Fender Guitars/Amps, AKG, Rode, Sennheiser, Neumann U87 & KM184's, Coles 4038, Equator D5 monitors |
#26
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32 Bit Float
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The only true difference between 24 bit fixed and 32 bit float is a fixed or variable quantization noise floor. Buttdialed by me & Tapatalk
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James Cadwallader Mac Studio, 64GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Glyph 2TB USB3 HDD, OWC drive dock, Mac OS Monterey 12.6.8 Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.9, HD Native, Focusrite Red 8Pre Presonus Faderport, Pro Tools | Control |
#27
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Re: 32 Bit Float
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"The AD7760 is a high performance, 24-bit Σ-Δ analog-to-digital converter (ADC). It combines wide input bandwidth and high speed with the benefits of Σ-Δ conversion to achieve a performance of 100 dB SNR at 2.5 MSPS" So with a SNR of 100dB, from your own quote 1bit = 6dB, 100 divided by 6(dB) = 16.7bits. By it's own specifications, this chip actually resolves less than 17bits of audio signal, the remaining 7 bits in the 24bit file it outputs contains nothing other than it's own internal noise floor! In other words, this is a 17bit converter chip outputting a 24bit format file. Quote:
If you're going to call yourself or act as a recording engineer, mix engineer or whatever, you really should have at least a little fundamental knowledge of the engineering part of the job description! G |
#28
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32 Bit Float
As been pointed out. Most interfaces these days use 24-bit converters. And due to the noise floor and limitations in analog stages we aren't even using the full 24-bits. No matter what, you're not going to get any more data than 24-bits out of a 24-bit converter. Period.
Most converters can also do 16-bit. But they switch into 16-bit mode. It's not just pro tools recording less bits. Once you done recording and are processing the file, 32-bit can have advantages. And sample rate does have much more impact on sound quality, but that can be negligible and is probably due more to the performance of the converters than the actual recorded file.
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Dell T5810. Harrison Mixbus 32C. Haven't used PT since 2015 and never been happier. |
#29
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Re: 32 Bit Float
Greg,
I'm not going to resort to mud slinging, you're certainly right about that chip. For that I appoligize and shouldn't have used that as an example. I appreciate your help in pointing out my errors. I will be more deligeant in the future. As for sample rate, I'd love some more insight on that one. Nyquist relates to the fact that the signal must be sampled a min of twice the highest frequency. That is only if you want to accurately reproduce the signal with MIN aliasing. There are benefits to oversampling. As we all know there are harmonics that can get missed during that principle of only 2xfrequency. What bit rate and sample rate do you use? What device? My comment about 'feeling' the difference was a joke...just to be clear. I'm going to keep recording at 24bit 48kHz because that's what works for me. I'm also going to keep calling myself an engineer as well...probably more now :P (that is also a joke...I can really only professionally call myself a Linemen :P) |
#30
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Re: 32 Bit Float
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Harmonics beyond the range of human hearing are a red herring. Even if you have mics, mic pre-amps, power amps and speakers which can record or reproduce ultra-sonic frequencies your ear cannot respond to them anyway. The old chestnut of ultrasonic harmonics affecting the frequencies you can hear is also untrue, intermodulation can only occur in the ear between frequencies (harmonics) to which the ear is sensitive. You asked what format I use; I usually record at 24bit 48kHz due to delivery requirements, very rarely I might record 96Khz (or higher) files for sound design purposes if I'm intending to pitch shift down an octave or more. Quote:
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