Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > macOS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-16-2015, 07:21 AM
ThosSounds ThosSounds is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Encinitas, CA USA
Posts: 22
Default Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Hi all,

I recently picked up a copy of Waves' InPhase plugin and am finding it doing something odd that I'm guessing has something to do with PT's Delay Compensation.

First question; am I right in thinking that delay compensation only affects the output of tracks, and not say a bus send from a track, or maybe the input to a plugin on a track? In other words, a track showing a delay compensation of 1920 would have its playback output shifted back 1920 samples, but the bus send and plugins would be seeing the audio before the shift?

What's happening with InPhase is this: I'm attempting to use it to phase align two mono audio tracks, a DI guitar and a reamp'd signal. Naturally, the amp signal is behind the DI. In the Edit window it appears to be less than 1ms behind. Waves' tutorial videos suggest putting InPhase on the amp track and using a bus send from the DI track to feed the side chain input on Inphase. When I do this though, the amp track appears ahead of the DI in Inphase (!) If I reverse the setup and put InPhase on the DI track, the DI track then appears ahead of the amp, but by a much bigger than "natural" amount (over 20ms).

I've played with turning Delay compensation on and off, which seems to have no effect.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Tom
PT HDX 11.3 on Mac OS 10.9.5, 8 core 2.4Ghz Intel, 24GB RAM, Waves v9.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-17-2015, 05:50 PM
Eric Seaberg's Avatar
Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,819
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Why not get rid of the plugins, zoom in far enough to see the samples (or close to it), grab one of them and manually move left or right until it closely matches the other waveform? What you're trying to do is SO SIMPLE it doesn't require the extra processor power of some silly plugin... know what I'm sayin'?
__________________
Eric Seaberg • San Diego, CA
A.E.S., I.E.E.E., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-19-2015, 08:09 AM
Table Syrup Records's Avatar
Table Syrup Records Table Syrup Records is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 1,485
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

If I am not mistaken, Sidechain ADC is an HDX only feature

I do this all the time though with my HDN setup


Just be sure that you don't have plugs causing much/any latency on your Sodechain Dource track. And if you do, print that track before sending to InPhase


As far as what Eric is asking. One good example of why to use InPhase over doing it manually is when phase aligning drums or anything with multiple tracks that would benefit from the same movement. Set InPhase, open as AS plug, and render as many tracks as needed. Tadda


Also works well when aligning tracks that will go to someone as individual tracks / stems - so when imported they still align, without the need of the additional steps of consolidating and purging session audio files


And, when you get quick with InPhase, it can be faster than doing it manually


I'm sure there are many other great reasons I'm not thinking of right now. I just woke up


I use InPhase a lot and love it!
__________________
Shorty: Table Syrup Records

Mac Pro 5,1 3.33 GHz Hex, 32GB
EFI Flashed - 5 GT/s Modded 7950, Dual Apple 23"
OSX Sierra
Pro Tools HD 11.2.2
Waves IOS, IOX, STG2412
Extreme Server (x2)
Logic Pro X, DSP Quattro, Final Cut Pro X
Waves Mercury+SSL+AbbeyRoads
Trident S65 with embedded US-2400

Live:
2012 Mac Mini, Dual SSD, i7 2.4, 16GB
Win 10, OSX Sierra
LV1, MRSG
Hardware from above (same gear)
Dual Dell P2418HT Touch Screens
Waves Icon X (x2), M, with Screens
Custom enclosure
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-19-2015, 08:33 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,815
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Syrup Records View Post
If I am not mistaken, Sidechain ADC is an HDX only feature
You are not mistaken
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-19-2015, 04:30 PM
Eric Seaberg's Avatar
Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,819
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Syrup Records View Post
One good example of why to use InPhase over doing it manually is when phase aligning drums or anything with multiple tracks that would benefit from the same movement. Set InPhase, open as AS plug, and render as many tracks as needed. Tadda
Why would you ever want to align drums?! I've gotten in so many discussions with people about this. What you're changing isn't phase, but timing information relative to panning and placement. My gosh people... how many years before digital have incredible sounding drums been recorded?! If your micing is right when it goes down, and you like the way the drums sound, leave them alone (pretend like this is all caps).
__________________
Eric Seaberg • San Diego, CA
A.E.S., I.E.E.E., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-19-2015, 04:39 PM
hjorte's Avatar
hjorte hjorte is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 330
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg View Post
If your micing is right when it goes down,
What to do if the miking wasn't right tracking a multi-miked drumkit - due to time constraints, stress, inexperience, lack of overview in a complex situation or simply missing to locate the issues during recording? Can you still not use these correction tools with any benefit? Is there absolutely nothing to win using them afterwards? I'm asking politely and genuinely
__________________
http://audiozone.dk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-19-2015, 04:45 PM
Table Syrup Records's Avatar
Table Syrup Records Table Syrup Records is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 1,485
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

I do it when I'm looking for very tight, very punchy, super crisp drums... and yes it does make a substantial difference - and sometimes the difference in time between mics does cause phasing sounding drums - so this can correct that - in fact, more often than not, I've noticed more that it's after you've done it - if you A/B the drums from beforehand, that's when you hear what was 'wrong' with the original drums.

Not looking for an argument... do what works for ya... don't do what you don't need or want to do. that's fine. all that matters is the end result. Just because this wasn't done with drums before the technology wasn't there, doesn't mean it isn't necessary or that it doesn't make it better when needed.

There are many styles of music, and sometimes super tight, crisp, clear, punchy drums are what's really needed to make a track shine. I often do it even with incredible sounding recordings that were done right, and yes, it can improve them. That is in no way wrong.

And then, other times, leaving them alone is perfectly fine.

I work both ways, depending on what is needed. Neither is right nor wrong
__________________
Shorty: Table Syrup Records

Mac Pro 5,1 3.33 GHz Hex, 32GB
EFI Flashed - 5 GT/s Modded 7950, Dual Apple 23"
OSX Sierra
Pro Tools HD 11.2.2
Waves IOS, IOX, STG2412
Extreme Server (x2)
Logic Pro X, DSP Quattro, Final Cut Pro X
Waves Mercury+SSL+AbbeyRoads
Trident S65 with embedded US-2400

Live:
2012 Mac Mini, Dual SSD, i7 2.4, 16GB
Win 10, OSX Sierra
LV1, MRSG
Hardware from above (same gear)
Dual Dell P2418HT Touch Screens
Waves Icon X (x2), M, with Screens
Custom enclosure
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-19-2015, 04:47 PM
Table Syrup Records's Avatar
Table Syrup Records Table Syrup Records is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 1,485
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

hjorte - that is a good example

I get a lot of sessions like this - that I did not record - and they benefit from it substantially in the edit/mix process.
__________________
Shorty: Table Syrup Records

Mac Pro 5,1 3.33 GHz Hex, 32GB
EFI Flashed - 5 GT/s Modded 7950, Dual Apple 23"
OSX Sierra
Pro Tools HD 11.2.2
Waves IOS, IOX, STG2412
Extreme Server (x2)
Logic Pro X, DSP Quattro, Final Cut Pro X
Waves Mercury+SSL+AbbeyRoads
Trident S65 with embedded US-2400

Live:
2012 Mac Mini, Dual SSD, i7 2.4, 16GB
Win 10, OSX Sierra
LV1, MRSG
Hardware from above (same gear)
Dual Dell P2418HT Touch Screens
Waves Icon X (x2), M, with Screens
Custom enclosure
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-19-2015, 06:27 PM
Eric Seaberg's Avatar
Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,819
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Syrup Records View Post
I work both ways, depending on what is needed. Neither is right nor wrong
Agreed... use your ears! However, most users who have less experience here miss so much because they reach for the plugins first WITOUT ever listening. I've been doing this since 1971, and taught many, many classes to those who really wanted to be behind the console, but would never listen to what was going on before they started to tweak.

That's all I'm saying. If you NEED the tools, so glad they're there, but don't use them just to use them.

I'm done... thanks for the soapbox.
__________________
Eric Seaberg • San Diego, CA
A.E.S., I.E.E.E., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-21-2015, 10:29 AM
Andy Gone's Avatar
Andy Gone Andy Gone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Posts: 210
Default Re: Waves InPhase and Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hjorte View Post
What to do if the miking wasn't right tracking a multi-miked drumkit - due to time constraints, stress, inexperience, lack of overview in a complex situation or simply missing to locate the issues during recording? Can you still not use these correction tools with any benefit? Is there absolutely nothing to win using them afterwards? I'm asking politely and genuinely
Sic! Not all mixing engineers are also recording engineers for the same project. Every other time we get to mix a material that is poorly tracked, and now it is our job to put on Bruce Willis shoes and save the world from the asteroid :)))) I prefer to have tools under my belt that can help doing the job effectively and in a reasonable time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Syrup Records View Post
I do it when I'm looking for very tight, very punchy, super crisp drums... and yes it does make a substantial difference - and sometimes the difference in time between mics does cause phasing sounding drums - so this can correct that - in fact, more often than not, I've noticed more that it's after you've done it - if you A/B the drums from beforehand, that's when you hear what was 'wrong' with the original drums.
<...>
+1 quite often :) When I do first rough drum sum, it sounds quite exciting. Then I check phase and do some aligning. Then I'm often surprised how I could like the initial rough sum :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Syrup Records View Post
There are many styles of music, and sometimes super tight, crisp, clear, punchy drums are what's really needed to make a track shine. I often do it even with incredible sounding recordings that were done right, and yes, it can improve them. That is in no way wrong.

And then, other times, leaving them alone is perfectly fine.

I work both ways, depending on what is needed. Neither is right nor wrong
Use to work both ways too, and still learning to trust my ears. Sometimes I only use InPhase to check if phase issues could be significantly reduced, and often they are not. Sometimes there is no point to fix something which is not broken.

Especially what I like in InPhase is phase filters that sometimes can help to remedy very annoying phase problems. I think there is no other plugin having that feature.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Waves Problems with delay compensation RTASW Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 18 04-28-2013 11:57 PM
Waves inphase anyone trying it? Raoul23 General Discussion 1 02-20-2012 12:03 PM
Waves InPhase danander11 General Discussion 5 01-21-2012 04:20 AM
Delay Compensation issue... Is it Waves? acacia Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 7 03-18-2010 11:53 AM
Waves Tune and delay compensation Anibal Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 7 09-25-2006 06:51 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:38 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com