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  #11  
Old 01-27-2005, 06:20 AM
mfleming mfleming is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

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There are some amazing things going on recently with electronic drums but they're still not the real thing. plus, the cost of something approaching the real thing might be close to the cost of fixing the garage. What about not spending much in the garage and instead investing in some long cables? Drums could be tracked there and the guest room could still be put to good use - as control room for the garage and overdub room for everything else.

will
There is a larger room right next door to the "recording" guest room. It's a much larger workout room, probably twice the size. One complete wall is mirrored, another has two sliding glass doors and the other two drywall. 9' ceiling. I'd have to measure, but it's not an exact square. I don't know about recording drums, so my dumb question is, would it need to be acoustically treated at all (could not do that permanently)? Or is it good for drums to be this "live?"

Now that I think about it, there is a notched out area on one wall of that room where my wife keeps a huge Pilates machine she doesn't use. I think a drum set could be stored there nicely instead, until needed for recording.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2005, 09:10 AM
GothicV GothicV is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

Even though recording drums acoustically is a great idea.... I think in your case an electric set might be the best way to go. Think of the cost it takes to make a seperate room in the garage, then add in the cost of purchasing all the cables, stands and mics (plus outboard preamps) it takes to mic up all the drums, factor in the time frame (like, recording soon vs after the reno) and the adding cost and time of drum head changes and it may well be worth the money just to go electric.

He will lose some valuble recording experience as explained above; however he will become very good with midi, and in this day and age, and where the market seems to be headed, this skill is just as if not more important than learning to mic up drums.
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2005, 10:07 AM
jjhuntfox jjhuntfox is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

The Roland V Club kit has some good sounds in it and will work fine. I use real cymbals and mic them, any background thumps that might get picked up are in line with the drum sounds and are not a problem.

The nice thing about the V Club is that I can track with my band in one room and keep a live feel. I run direct from the bass, one mic on a cymbal, and mics on each of the guitar cabs. We use a mixer and have really quiet scratch vocals that I do not record. I go back later and od vocals etc.

The latency issue is a pain. From the time that the trigger is struck to an output is about 130 samples (at 44.1 sample rate.) or 2.9 miliseconds. I slide the drum tracks forward that amount and it seems to bring the life back to the drum tracks.

The other thing I like is being able to put on headphones and play drums. Makes almost no noise.

V Drums have their problems but can be a great tool especially if you are stuck with a small room. If I had a bigger room I'd get a real kit.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2005, 10:09 AM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

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He will lose some valuble recording experience as explained above; however he will become very good with midi, and in this day and age, and where the market seems to be headed, this skill is just as if not more important than learning to mic up drums.

Touche.

Quote:
There is a larger room right next door to the "recording" guest room. It's a much larger workout room, probably twice the size. One complete wall is mirrored, another has two sliding glass doors and the other two drywall. 9' ceiling. I'd have to measure, but it's not an exact square. I don't know about recording drums, so my dumb question is, would it need to be acoustically treated at all (could not do that permanently)? Or is it good for drums to be this "live?"

I'd say it's too live. You'd need to treat that room, with blankets and sheets and foam, though not permanently. Those hard, reflective surfaces like mirrors, glass doors, and drywall will need to be quelled. You could make some baffles and bass traps on the cheap, but it would be alot of effort to move all that stuff in and out every drum session. The 9 foot ceiling is less than desirable, but it could work, especially if this is just for band demos.

Yet another scenario is this: have the bands spend a few hundred and track the drums at a pro studio, and then do the rest at home. Otherwise, do the electronic drum thing. It's tough to tell if local bands would want to do this, though. Talk to your son about what his clients want.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2005, 10:37 AM
mfleming mfleming is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

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The latency issue is a pain. From the time that the trigger is struck to an output is about 130 samples (at 44.1 sample rate.) or 2.9 miliseconds. I slide the drum tracks forward that amount and it seems to bring the life back to the drum tracks.
Could you go into the latency issue a little more. Is the latency constant so that it is not a big deal to just slike the drum tracks X distance? Or is it variable for some reason?

Actually, no that I think about it, why would electric drums have more latency than any other input to the Digi002R/PTLE?
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2005, 10:46 AM
mfleming mfleming is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

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Even though recording drums acoustically is a great idea.... I think in your case an electric set might be the best way to go. Think of the cost it takes to make a seperate room in the garage, then add in the cost of purchasing all the cables, stands and mics (plus outboard preamps) it takes to mic up all the drums, factor in the time frame (like, recording soon vs after the reno) and the adding cost and time of drum head changes and it may well be worth the money just to go electric.

He will lose some valuble recording experience as explained above; however he will become very good with midi, and in this day and age, and where the market seems to be headed, this skill is just as if not more important than learning to mic up drums.
Good points.

He is going to be mostly doing his own music, so he won't often have to convince others to buy into the electric drums. So maybe it's really not that bad of an idea.

Someone is now doing the mixing for his new EP songs. The mixing engineer didn't like the drum sounds he recorded (probably because he does not yet have mics that are high enough quality) so the engineer is--and I could have the wording/description wrong on this--resampling (?) the drum sounds to better ones he already has stored digitally from a better drum recording. Hopefully how I explained that makes sense. Anyway, if this can be done, I assume he could also do this to elements of the electric drum tracks that might not sound real enough, right?
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2005, 01:31 PM
jjhuntfox jjhuntfox is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

The latency of the V Club drums is constant. It is the time it internally takes it to send out the signal. It has nothing to do with any converter latency or monitoring latency.

I started a thread called Latency Experiments... might check that out.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2005, 02:32 PM
Keith Owens Keith Owens is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

mark, send me an email please


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  #19  
Old 01-27-2005, 03:07 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Drums vs, regular drums as input to P

Lots of opinions so I may as well weigh in on this. For pop, rock and modern country, I have been getting very good results with electronic drums. First, latency is really a non-issue. I record the midi and monitor with a aux input using low-latency mode. Once I have a solid performance, I edit the midi track as needed and use it to drive the drum module(Roland TD10 expanded) and track to 8 tracks. A few good plugins help(Waves, BF75, Pultec), If I need BIG drums, I aux buss the kick, snare and toms to an aux input with an 1176 plugin set to squash, then mix that up under the other tracks. I also aux send all the drums and cymbals(and the compressor track) to another aux track with Waves Trueverb, which gives the sound cohesion, making it sound more like a kit played in a room. A little Rverb on the cymbals to give them a little more "stretch" and I have had several drummers compliment the results. Ideas for improvement-use a real hihat and a real ride with their own mics. Recording acoustic drums with a low ceiling doesn't work well. By the time you treat the ceiling, you lose the feeling of a real room to a certain degree anyway. I am staying with my V kit with no regrets till I get the $ to build a better studio in my basement which has 10 foot ceilings. Course by the time I do the room right, I won't have any money left to buy an acoustic kit.
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