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  #11  
Old 06-16-2015, 08:45 AM
Justin1524 Justin1524 is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

I've been running Pro Tools 11.3 and Studio One Pro 3 on a 2008 Mac Pro Desktop and on a Samsung RC512 PC laptop running Windows 8.1. I don't have any problems with stability or playback on any of these systems. Having said that, there are certainly pros and cons to each.

The bottom line for me is, I am trying to make the switch to Studio One Pro 3 for the following reasons...

1.) Studio One 3 is remarkably stable and fast.
2.) Studio One 3 is fairly priced at around $300, less than half what Pro Tools costs new with the ability to use 1 license on up to 5 Macs or PCs, no iLok req'd and no bogus subscription for updates req'd.
3.) Studio One 3 has enhanced features Pro Tools does not have.
4.) The non-response from Avid to the hundreds of people complaining are, to say the least, very, very disappointing.

In favor of Pro Tools...
1.) I truly enjoy the simplicity and elegance I've known for years.
2.) After years of learning Pro Tools, change is hard.
3.) There are features in Pro Tools that are not in Studio One 3 that I miss somewhat.
4.) Confidence when recording, especially when tracking, is king. This is just going to take some getting used to with Studio One 3.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2015, 01:22 PM
Kris75's Avatar
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
Okay, so based upon your reply, Pro Tools, even though it always runs at 1024, is still less efficient than Studio One 3 or Logic Pro X. Regardless of what Pro Tools decides to do, I chose 1024 and it finally stopped giving me enough playback errors to be mostly useful. Logic Pro X however, worked perfectly fine at 64 samples.

All you really stated was that Pro Tools is so inefficient that it forces you to use 1024 samples and still can't do the job as well as S1 3 or LPX.

The point I am re-iterating here is that you can do the same job in LPX or S1 that you can in pro tools, and you don't need a super-computer to do it.

EDIT: So the post is accurate, because I had it set to 1024, and if you are saying it ALWAYS is, then it's irrelevant.
That is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that you did not know how the buffer size works in Pro Tools 11 and above and that you may inadvertently have multiple tracks on the input buffer

From the "What's New in Pro Tools 11 Doc"

Pro Tools 11 provides a new low-latency input buffer.
This ensures ultra-low latency record monitoring
without sacrificing plug-in performance. The
low-latency input buffer is automatically engaged
while monitoring virtual instruments, and also for
record-enabled tracks or input monitor–enabled
tracks


FWIW, I can run HUGE sessions on my 4 year old Lenovo z570. This is not a super computer at all.

I am also aware that other programs may be more efficient than PT, but the test you ran is not actually a reliable way to see the difference.

I am aware that PT is picky on the machines that it runs on, but perhaps your system is not set up for Pro Tools in the best way possible. Maybe you don't want it to be. That is all fine. But PT11/12 is not as inefficient as you made it seem. That is all I was getting at.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2015, 01:28 PM
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Kris75 Kris75 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
I wasn't aware of this. Can you elaborate please?

I have first selected under MIDI prefs so that when I jump around my VI's, my MIDI controllers automatically pick up on where I'm at. Are you saying that I'm now running at a lower buffer and potentially using more CPU?
That is exactly what I am saying. In PT 10 and below, "First Selected" was the default pref. In PT 11 and up you will notice that the default is now "None"

You will see your CPU use go down significantly if you choose "None"

I also have mine set to "First Selected" but my studio computer is a powerhouse. On my laptop it is set to "None"

You will see a dramatic increase in stability on an underpowered machine by setting it to "None" because only the tracks that are record enabled get put into the low latency buffer as opposed to all VI tracks in your session.

The good news is that you are able to record enable and disable any midi track during playback. A bit of a hassle, but if you are running out of CPU, it's not a bad tradeoff.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2015, 01:32 PM
Wall2Wall Wall2Wall is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

What is the fixed output buffer of Logic? I believe it's 1024 or better. It's never been an issue for me though.

Last edited by Wall2Wall; 06-16-2015 at 01:42 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2015, 02:21 PM
ShiftStudios ShiftStudios is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
That is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that you did not know how the buffer size works in Pro Tools 11 and above and that you may inadvertently have multiple tracks on the input buffer

From the "What's New in Pro Tools 11 Doc"

Pro Tools 11 provides a new low-latency input buffer.
This ensures ultra-low latency record monitoring
without sacrificing plug-in performance. The
low-latency input buffer is automatically engaged
while monitoring virtual instruments, and also for
record-enabled tracks or input monitor–enabled
tracks


FWIW, I can run HUGE sessions on my 4 year old Lenovo z570. This is not a super computer at all.

I am also aware that other programs may be more efficient than PT, but the test you ran is not actually a reliable way to see the difference.

I am aware that PT is picky on the machines that it runs on, but perhaps your system is not set up for Pro Tools in the best way possible. Maybe you don't want it to be. That is all fine. But PT11/12 is not as inefficient as you made it seem. That is all I was getting at.
I am glad that you run huge sessions on an old uncertified Windows machine. All that proves is how temperamental Pro Tools is that it will work on an old uncertified machine, but not a new certified one...

As a programmer of almost 30 years, I wholeheartedly disagree that Pro Tools does not have optimisation problems, and for the following reasons. I am running Pro Tools 12 on a Macbook Pro retina 2013 15" (2.3G i7, 500GB SSD with external USB3 drive for session data, 16GB Ram, 2GB Nvidia 750M graphics card) (an avid certified machine) and have done all of the optimisations listed here:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/t.../Optimize-10-9

I have also removed all plugins that I do not require for the session from Pro Tools (but have not done so for S1 3 or LPX). If in fact the buffer works as you say it does, then why do I have the hardware buffer size option here?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xs9o4w2zux...%20am.png?dl=0

If by default there is low latency recording and 1024 samples on playback (no wonder it always stutters with dynamic plugin processing if it's hard coded at 1024). Talk about lazy programming if you can't even set visible = false to something that is no longer relevant...

Why does a machine that works perfectly fine with a session in Logic Pro X and Studio One 3 have trouble running the exact same session on Pro Tools 12?? Obviously Logic Pro X and Studio One 3 use some voodoo magic to be able to provide a better experience with the EXACT SAME HARDWARE AND SESSION FILES/PLUGINS than Pro Tools.

I like many others am getting tired of hearing people defend AVID's terrible programming. In this day and age when we have more computing power than we should ever need, why does Pro Tools continue to require optimisation of certified machines, and then when it doesn't work people still say "it must be you" rather than admitting there is a problem with AVID's underlying code...

It's really frustrating for me as an analyst programmer of almost thirty years to see people constantly defend poor work... :/

So in black and white:

Same hardware, same files, same plugins, avid certified machine

Studio One 3 - Good
Logic Pro X - Good
Pro Tools - Buggy

I'd love to help AVID fix it, but they won't even admit there's a damn problem. While I'm at it, it's been over eighty days since I gave you money, where is my advertised Cloud Collaboration? Yup, no internal development issues at AVID, they're the BEST!

Also I am going to state that changing the buffer size on that window DOES affect performance and playback. So if AVID are stating that playback buffer is fixed at 1024, then why does that setting affect playback?? Someone is either lying or does not know how the software works.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2015, 02:39 PM
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Kris75 Kris75 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
I am glad that you run huge sessions on an old uncertified Windows machine. All that proves is how temperamental Pro Tools is that it will work on an old uncertified machine, but not a new certified one...

As a programmer of almost 30 years, I wholeheartedly disagree that Pro Tools does not have optimisation problems, and for the following reasons. I am running Pro Tools 12 on a Macbook Pro retina 2013 15" (2.3G i7, 500GB SSD with external USB3 drive for session data, 16GB Ram, 2GB Nvidia 750M graphics card) (an avid certified machine) and have done all of the optimisations listed here:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/t.../Optimize-10-9

I have also removed all plugins that I do not require for the session from Pro Tools (but have not done so for S1 3 or LPX). If in fact the buffer works as you say it does, then why do I have the hardware buffer size option here?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xs9o4w2zux...%20am.png?dl=0

If by default there is low latency recording and 1024 samples on playback (no wonder it always stutters with dynamic plugin processing if it's hard coded at 1024). Talk about lazy programming if you can't even set visible = false to something that is no longer relevant...

Why does a machine that works perfectly fine with a session in Logic Pro X and Studio One 3 have trouble running the exact same session on Pro Tools 12?? Obviously Logic Pro X and Studio One 3 use some voodoo magic to be able to provide a better experience with the EXACT SAME HARDWARE AND SESSION FILES/PLUGINS than Pro Tools.

I like many others am getting tired of hearing people defend AVID's terrible programming. In this day and age when we have more computing power than we should ever need, why does Pro Tools continue to require optimisation of certified machines, and then when it doesn't work people still say "it must be you" rather than admitting there is a problem with AVID's underlying code...

It's really frustrating for me as an analyst programmer of almost thirty years to see people constantly defend poor work... :/

So in black and white:

Same hardware, same files, same plugins, avid certified machine

Studio One 3 - Good
Logic Pro X - Good
Pro Tools - Buggy

I'd love to help AVID fix it, but they won't even admit there's a damn problem. While I'm at it, it's been over eighty days since I gave you money, where is my advertised Cloud Collaboration? Yup, no internal development issues at AVID, they're the BEST!

Also I am going to state that changing the buffer size on that window DOES affect performance and playback. So if AVID are stating that playback buffer is fixed at 1024, then why does that setting affect playback?? Someone is either lying or does not know how the software works.

That is your input buffer size. Sorry your machine does not work the way you want it. I work on many machines and see a lot of Mac Pros running PT 12 near perfection.

What audio interface are you using? In your screenshot it just says 16A. I also noticed that you have the error suppression checked and that dynamic plug in processing unchecked. Is there a reason for this?

I am not defending AVID at all. As a matter of fact, I want to see the advertised features as well. However, for many people. Probably most people, PT 12 works very well.

I am not trying to start a fight, just simply trying to help.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2015, 02:43 PM
ShiftStudios ShiftStudios is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris75 View Post
That is your input buffer size. Sorry your machine does not work the way you want it. I work on many machines and see a lot of Mac Pros running PT 12 near perfection.

What audio interface are you using? In your screenshot it just says 16A. I also noticed that you have the error suppression checked and that dynamic plug in processing unchecked. Is there a reason for this?

I am not defending AVID at all. As a matter of fact, I want to see the advertised features as well. However, for many people. Probably most people, PT 12 works very well.

I am not trying to start a fight, just simply trying to help.
As you've got so many machines running to perfection, I would be interested on what you think I should do to make mine work better. I honestly love pro tools. I just cannot for the life of my understand why it seems to have become so temperamental, and why it seems to have such high requirements when other DAWs can do the same job with a fraction of the resources...

I also am not trying to pick a fight. I'm just simply trying to state that if I remove the session differences, on an apples for apples comparison, Pro Tools seems to be much less reliable and stable for mixing than either Studio One 3 or Logic Pro X. I would love it to be stable, I love Pro Tools...
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2015, 02:54 PM
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Kris75 Kris75 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

What OS are you running?
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2015, 04:07 PM
ShiftStudios ShiftStudios is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
I've been running Pro Tools 11.3 and Studio One Pro 3 on a 2008 Mac Pro Desktop and on a Samsung RC512 PC laptop running Windows 8.1. I don't have any problems with stability or playback on any of these systems. Having said that, there are certainly pros and cons to each.

The bottom line for me is, I am trying to make the switch to Studio One Pro 3 for the following reasons...

1.) Studio One 3 is remarkably stable and fast.
2.) Studio One 3 is fairly priced at around $300, less than half what Pro Tools costs new with the ability to use 1 license on up to 5 Macs or PCs, no iLok req'd and no bogus subscription for updates req'd.
3.) Studio One 3 has enhanced features Pro Tools does not have.
4.) The non-response from Avid to the hundreds of people complaining are, to say the least, very, very disappointing.

In favor of Pro Tools...
1.) I truly enjoy the simplicity and elegance I've known for years.
2.) After years of learning Pro Tools, change is hard.
3.) There are features in Pro Tools that are not in Studio One 3 that I miss somewhat.
4.) Confidence when recording, especially when tracking, is king. This is just going to take some getting used to with Studio One 3.
I would be interested to know if you found a way to import session data in Studio One 3. I loved it except for that. When I'm mixing a 10 track album, I like to work with the same baseline, and I can't do that if I can't import session data, takes eons to do everything manually. :/
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2015, 04:33 PM
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Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 12 vs Studio One 3 vs Logic Pro X

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftStudios View Post
I would be interested to know if you found a way to import session data in Studio One 3. I loved it except for that. When I'm mixing a 10 track album, I like to work with the same baseline, and I can't do that if I can't import session data, takes eons to do everything manually. :/
Yeah, that's a complete and utter deal breaker for any real working music or post engineer.
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