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  #1  
Old 02-10-2015, 05:28 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

A lot of us are complaining, me included, but I think most of us come from the perspective that we love working with Protools and the hardware associated with it. We all want to continue the amazing relationship we have with the DAW that we all love so much. I know I do. I'm having a blast right now teaching my eleven year old son how to record and use protools, and I want him to be using it 30 years from now any beyond.

I personally understand, that Avid has to achieve a certain bottom line to be successful. I just hope there is some way to achieve that and retain what we are all comfortable with.

Avid, this roll out has been a mess, learn from it, be honest and admit it, change what is necessary, and not all change comes with pleasing everyone. Actually, its impossible to please everybody. Be honest with all of us, there is great power with that. If the company cannot sustain itself with trying to be everything to everyone, then just say it. I personally can respect that, even if I end up being one of the ones it can't sustain.

Never, not once in my very long relationship with Digidesign/Avid have I ever recommend a new user to go with another choice other than Protools. Today, I'm recommending everyone I know, to get as far away from Protools as you can.

That's not good for Avid and frankly, more importantly, its not good for me, as my best interest are with a successful Avid with Protools being the center of it.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:00 PM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Well unfortunately it isn't miuch about the users anymore. I have 3 copies of PT, one being HD.
Was going to get a Native 16x16 this year. Cancelled that.

I'll keep the one HD active, the other two will stay 11. Never to get an upgrade.

That's future loss of money AVID isn't considering since most people who's renewl expired aren't likely to purchase a full version AGAIN.

Bought a copy of Logic 10 today, so I figure over the next couple of months I'll learn it.

I feel you as well. I've been mentioning to people to get Reaper aand or Logic.
I told them buying into Pro Tools means you need to keep an active subscription or lose updates and upgrade ability.

Some of them just don't have 199 bucks every year to fork over and then lose their investment.
And subscription wasn't appealing either as if they don't pay, they can't play.

Nice job AVID.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:08 PM
mmk mmk is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

why dont they just add the subcription option to their sales model and call it a day? Those who want subscriptions will buy subscriptions, those who want to own the software will buy a full license. Keep the options the open. seems fair to me. i havent heard of any other company that makes you pay for customer support, and only adobe is charging for subscriptions as far as I can tell. The Adobe subscriptions seem reasonable but I would still like to own the software. I'm not a fan of software subscriptions unless they are more reasonably priced. I used to pay tunecore for itunes, but the yearly fees made me cancel my sucbription and now I have no music on itunes. I'd rather do it like CD Baby a 1 time fee and thats it. When I buy something I want to own it. when it comes to customer support, maybe divide it to 2 sections, 1 for the everyday customer, and 1 for the professional who is using the product in a professional enviorment. charge for the bigger clients with more specific needs. i like EVGA's model, 24 hour tech support 7 days a week for free. I called at 12:30 am to get help with a graphics card without having to verify anything. got it figured out in 10 minutes. great service.
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  #4  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:17 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

That would have been the easy way and wouldn't have alienated what appears to be a significant majority of users ... and most users have probably yet to even find out! Bill will surely remind us that there is an accounting rationale behind all of this but the subscription option may actually be perfect for some users, or for occasional use by existing licence holders.

Unfortunately however, most here do not feel that customer wants and needs are driving this change; instead, getting more revenue from existing users who may rarely upgrade (undoubtedly as well as GAAP rules!), flattening out the income peaks/troughs related to upgrade releases (especially when there may not be many flashy updates forthcoming, let alone in comparison to competitor DAW features/prices) and pushing users to compulsory 'Everywhere' dependency in the long run, may be at least as important to Avid.
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:09 AM
David C Avid's Avatar
David C Avid David C Avid is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Hi there,

This is Dave Colantuoni, and I run the Product Management team for Pro Tools. I wanted to take a moment and respond to a few items in this thread to help you understand the reasoning behind the new licensing model and what you get for your money.

First I want to address the "this roll out has been a mess" comment... Actually, it has been moving along quite well, and we have had a record amount of people who are taking advantage of this opportunity. We did the same for Media Composer back in 2014 and the upgrades were delivered were huge and now the licensing model is readily accepted. We expect the same on the audio side.

As for customers abandoning Avid, we really aren’t seeing this happen. While there is a lot of chatter online, people are seeing the value of this opportunity and taking advantage of it. $199 for a year of support/upgrades cost less than 75 cents a day. Most spend more money on coffee per day.

I don’t want you to think we aren’t listening, as we certainly are, and the moderators make sure that folks like Bruce and Jeffro hear the comments. But remember, this is a new program and it will take some getting used to.

We know that the proof lies with Avid and you do have a choice. If you don’t think you want the upgrade, then just stay where you are on your existing version. Most people are taking advantage and using this year as the proof point to see if we deliver. I know we will but you need to feel that as well in order to open your wallets. I can tell you that I know that a lot of users traditionally do just that, they like the version they are using and don't want to upgrade. That's fine. If you want to wait and see if Avid provides updates this year, then wait, if your still not satisfied with the updates then don’t renew next year and you still can use your existing version forever.

If you decide after Dec 31st that you did want to upgrade, there are other options for you around subscription to get you back on the latest version. Those options are as low as a monthly payment of $30. If you look at the economics (I’ll use the PT $199 plan here), you’ll get upgrades for $199 for a full year, and if you continue for 2 years that would be $398 to receive all the upgrades for 2 upgrades. Plus…. Not to mention the Support component that comes with the plan. This annual plan provides all future Pro Tools updates, upgrades, and expert help for one year from the time of activation. That’s worth way more than $199!

We are planning a few releases a year and that can serve as a great upgrade path. In the end, its $199/year to get upgrades and support for Pro Tools Software,and we feel w priced this very fairly to ensure that everybody had access to getting the latest version no matter what product license you are using. This is about trying to ensure that Pro Tools can be accessible to everybody, it’s about making sure that we keep people on the latest version so that they have the best customer and product experience as possible.

Software companies are moving to models like this and if you haven’t already you will see more of this. For software development, its becoming impossible to manage years of users on years of old versions and outdated OS while trying to keep feature development going at a pace that customers expect. Commoditized professional products means that companies like and Avid, Autodesk or Adobe have to adapt with new business models to we can remain competitive and grow the business and provide you with the features and functionality and service you need to be successful.

I think in the end, if you step back and look at the options and what you get depending on which path you will take, the offering of choice(s) will be good for all of our customers . If you want you can check out how much the cost of ownership is over 3 and 5 years… that’s even a better deal.

Dave
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:28 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Hello Dave, thanks for coming in. The one question we need answered and clarified is what happens if you let a support plan lapse, say for 2 years. How much is it to come back to a support plan?

In that same vein if you are on a subscription plan and let that lapse for 2 years for example, how much is it to come back in?

Thank you for your time.
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:33 AM
WKG WKG is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Thanks for the perspective Dave.

Can we have some information on the path/process/pricing for HD licenses?

Thanks.
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  #8  
Old 02-11-2015, 11:52 AM
David C Avid's Avatar
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Hi there Froyo

If you let your plan lapse, you will have two options to get access to the latest version of Pro Tools:
  • Subscribe to Pro Tools software on a monthly or annual basis (that can be 'restarted' at any time at the monthly or yearly price)
  • Purchase a new Pro Tools perpetual license (full product) that includes an annual upgrade and support plan
Dave
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:53 AM
David C Avid's Avatar
David C Avid David C Avid is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Hi there WKG,

There have been other questions about Pro Tools HD, which of course is not sold separately (only bundled with an HD system). We are still in the process of finalizing this and will be sharing details about this well in advance of the Dec 31, 2015 deadline to purchase an Upgrade Plan for Pro Tools HD.
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2015, 12:18 PM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Hi Dave - thaks for joining the discussion and addressing some of these points, even if they are not unversally liked (myself included).

Assuming you haven't read hundreds of pages of DUC comments over recent weeks and months, if the 'new money' value of Pro Tools 'vanilla' / non-HD is $899 including support (which may well be reasonably-priced but just not valued amongst many here), do you at least appreciate the disappointment of users who have previously invested in what will now become a 'perpetual licence' which would be worthless if their plans lapsed?

The premium these users have paid over new subscription users could be recognised by offering a more realistically-priced buy-back-in option, especially for those users who want to remain in the Pro Tools family, don't require support and upgrade less frequently (possibly primarily due to OS or hardware upgrades)? This premium is surely worth a bit of a gap in support plans for some users?

From where I'm sitting, nearly all of the negativity online could be addressed in one fell swoop by adding a penalty to lapsed plan renewals over the normal $199 (clarity on HD would cover most of the balance). Customers who would benefit and regularly upgrade mostly will ... because it's in their interest. Those who would not pay the yearly $199 will probably be lost to you anyway.

Last edited by Righty27; 02-11-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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