no side chain delay compensation for HD Native users

[OliverH]

Originally Posted by jello

thats my exact problem too, a real PT killer and weird that they don`t fix it asap - sidechaining is a real part of my technique.

AGREED! SAME HERE! I wish more people would complain about this so we can get it on Avid's radar

(I have a feeling it's already on their radar but just low priority..... how low? who knows...)

[OliverH]

Originally Posted by SoundEng1

This has to be fixed! i paid $599.00 for HD FEATURES!!

Agreed. In my opinion, it shouldn't even be relegated to being an "HD Feature." You either have delay compensation, or you don't. The way I look at it, it's a bug. But Avid's take on it is that this is an HDX-only feature... I guess it has something to with needing DSP... not sure I buy that. Or they're just rewarded those that shelled out the most $$ for a system with that "feature." ADC should work across all versions of PT, period. Seems like a pretty vital component to a DAW that its delay compensation be rock solid through and through.

[jello]

Looks like we are the only one using sidechain in Protools.

Its really weird that nobody are talking about this!


Whats the best way to get attention from Avid?

[jello]

Here from 2013, wtf

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...-in&popup=true

[AlexLakis]

So, just to reiterate, this problem only affects users using delay compensation?

[OliverH]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

So, just to reiterate, this problem only affects users using delay compensation?

not sure, Alex. But I would assume that if you're not using delay compensation, then you're not using any plugins that induce any delay on the tracks they're being used on. If that's the case, this problem wouldn't arise since your session wouldn't be dealing with any delay anywhere and whatever's being sent to a sidechain trigger input of a plugin won't be out of time with the rest of your tracks. Does that make sense?

My feeling is that people who use very low latency plugins (say something like 64 samples, as opposed to something like a UAD plugin which is more like 1,000+ samples of delay) are technically having this same problem but just don't know/hear it because the offset is so minimal since they're aren't using 'high latency-inducing' plugins. But get into more complex plugin chains where you're latency sum total is getting higher and you will hear the problem.

Like I said, this is MOST evident with something like a transient rich trigger source like a kick drum feeding the sidechain input of a compressors on a bass which is much less transient rich, comparatively speaking. You can hear the 'misfiring' more grossly in a situation like this.

But say you wanted to do the pumping house music sidechain compression trick where you duck all your synths/guitars/EFX/vocals,etc slaving them to the kick drum pattern in your song... you'll hear it badly here too since the ENTIRE mix will practically be affected and be triggered off-time from the main kick drum you're hearing.

Again, you COULD get around this by copying your kick track (and even losing any plugins on it if all you're looking for is a clean attack to trigger the sidechain input of a compressor somewhere else in your mix) and then scoot it around in time to line up... but i'll say it again... that's seem pretty ghetto for really expensive HD DAW software that already has a 'delay compensation' engine built into it.

[darbyclash34]

Man, I don't do a whole lot of sidechaining, but the last time I did it I was triggering a DBX160 from NI on bass from a Kick Channel that had a bunch of UAD plugs on it, and I couldn't get it to sound right to me, I didn't spend a lot time worrying about it, but obviously that's why it didn't work out. That's ******** that it's an HDX only feature, there's no way there is something about the HDX card that makes this possible and would otherwise bring a native system to its knees. The system is already sending the audio to its own inserts early, it could just as easily send the sidechain at the correct time. Or at least give us the he option to make the sidechain feed pre-insert, so the latency doesn't mess up the timing.

[AlexLakis]

I see, Oliver, thanks. I manually compensate every track with delay-inducing plugins on it by nudging (ALT-H) each track and making a note of it in the comments section. I will note that I use zero-latency plugins almost exclusively. I never use delay compensation, as I do not trust it, and I'm so used to doing it the old "ghetto" way, that I just do it and it doesn't take me much effort or time at all. I have not noticed sidechain issues here (mostly sidechaining kick to bass guitar or vocals to guitars in rock/pop music).

[jello]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I see, Oliver, thanks. I manually compensate every track with delay-inducing plugins on it by nudging (ALT-H) each track and making a note of it in the comments section. I will note that I use zero-latency plugins almost exclusively. I never use delay compensation, as I do not trust it, and I'm so used to doing it the old "ghetto" way, that I just do it and it doesn't take me much effort or time at all. I have not noticed sidechain issues here (mostly sidechaining kick to bass guitar or vocals to guitars in rock/pop music).

Yeah, thats the way I did it in PT 8 - Impossible to be creative, and flow with my ideas - took to much time.

Is it possible to do brauer multibus compression in PT now, or is the ADC off (phase smear) like it was a couple of years ago?

I think PT will be for recording and editing only for me from now on

[Intransit]

As a HD Native user I find it ridiculous this isn't a feature. My last film score used a lot of side chaining. I even have buses labeled for the purposes. It's one of those things I've learned to live with. It sucks.