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  #1  
Old 07-26-2003, 02:09 PM
skyking skyking is offline
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Default anyone making a living using an 002?

i was just curious if anyone supports themselves with their 002 and on that same note what is a ballpark figure a person with an 002 studio should hire out at....i have a person interested in doing a session but i dont have a clue what im worth....im not exactly a beginner at recording but ive never hired myself out yet ...they want to hire me as an engineer/musician...any ideas? thanks chas
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2003, 04:51 PM
La Flange La Flange is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

Well that all depends on the whole package. A 002 doesn't do much on its own obviously, so if it's a full DAW based on the 002 then it's a full DAW, and DAW rates apply, which vary from region to region. Check your competitor's rates and gear, adjust accordingly.

I suggest that you not factor your experience into your rate. Clients generally weigh the rate against your portfolio and facilities, so if you've only got two albums under your belt but they're strong material related to your prospective client base, you're no worse off than someone with 20 strong albums under their belt (which pisses off the veterans something awful).

And keep in mind the rate is agreed to at the outset. Nobody sits down and really compares the results with the pricetag, which would be unfair since you're paid for your effort, and the results are the product of the producer (hence the name) and how well they make use of your time.
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2003, 05:21 PM
Rick Irvine Rick Irvine is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

Hi Chas,
I run a small studio using a Panasonic DA7 001/PC/TascamMS16 1" analog/a few outboard pres,and comps.I've got about $10,000US into mics.I've got drums,guitars,amps,di's,cabling, and stomp boxes.
I've turned my 1200 sq ft basement into control room and 3 live rooms.
I've logged about 15 years(on and off) recording time,about half of which has been spent doing it for money.I spent 10 months,and 7 grand in a recording school.
My studio,and myself go for $25.00 an hour,or 150.00 per day(based on 8 hours).
The biggest factor for your rate is location,and what other studios/engineers/mobile recordists go for in your area.What kind of rep those people have is also a consideration.
If your considering starting up a for hire service.The best piece of advise I can give you is to give your clients a pre-production consultation.This is to make sure they are really ready to record,to get them ready if they're not,or for you(or them) to back out of the sessions if they never will be.
I say this because one of the most important things you can do to develop a good reputation is to record good sounding music.I have discovered the hard way,that alot of people don't seem to be able to discern the difference between good sound and good musicianship.I've recorded lots of local acts that were not really ready to record,and it paid reasonably well,but it did very little for my rep as a serious production facilty.
Always charge by the hour,make sure your client is committed to getting the best sound,and performance that they can.
Always be fair,if time is wasted,and it's your fault,be sure to give it back to the customer.
Always try to be creative,and find new ways to capture,and mix great tracks,but always remember each take can be precious,and impossible to replace.So that's what they are really paying for;Your knowledge and expertise.
Oh,and by the way,I have a day job.
Hope this helps,
Rick [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2003, 05:29 PM
Carl Fuehrer's Avatar
Carl Fuehrer Carl Fuehrer is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

I know Phil O'Keefe does and I will be soon as my place is built.
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Old 07-26-2003, 07:09 PM
Rick Irvine Rick Irvine is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

I totaly agree with La Flange.
A rookie with a 002,and some 57s can kick ass on alot of local established guys,if he/she's got the right bands,and some knowledge of Protools.
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Old 07-26-2003, 10:46 PM
Phil O'Keefe Phil O'Keefe is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Irvine:
I totaly agree with La Flange.
A rookie with a 002,and some 57s can kick ass on alot of local established guys,if he/she's got the right bands,and some knowledge of Protools.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not to be contradictory, but not a chance in hades.

Flip it around - give the pro the 002 (or whatever) and the newbie the HD system, SSL 9000 J and all the outboard bells and whistles, and the pro will kick hind end and take names almost every time.

But I certainly agree that the band has a lot to do with how a record turns out. I don't care if you're George Massenburg - if the material and performances suck, all the pristine engineering n the world isn't going to save the day.

I suggest that you not factor your experience into your rate. Clients generally weigh the rate against your portfolio and facilities, so if you've only got two albums under your belt but they're strong material related to your prospective client base, you're no worse off than someone with 20 strong albums under their belt (which pisses off the veterans something awful).

I would agree that if your previous work is very strong, that is more important than the amount of previous output. But OTOH, consistently strong work depends on a lot of factors - not the least of which is "how good is / was the artist?" And the other thing that comes with a lot of projects under your belt is diversified experiences. That's a valuable thing to have. What do you do when someone walks in with a Brazilian harp? Have you ever recorded one before? Well, when that happened to me, I was fortunate in that I had prior experience in recording concert harps, which gave me a point of reference in dealing with something new. If you don't have that background, you're gonna struggle when something new walks in the door... but if you've experienced a lot of different sessions, genres, and situations, it makes it a lot easier to handle the next unexpected turn in the road when it comes rushing towards you. You'll work faster, and probably deal with it better (and wind up with better final results) than someone with considerably less experience.

So while experience isn't everything, it IS a factor. All other things being equal, experience is one of the things that improves ability and capability. Assuming of course that you learn from your experiences. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

From a strictly engineering standpoint, experience is certainly helpful... but from a producer's standpoint, it's even more important, but not as important as good taste. And that's something a lot of people just don't have, and never manage to develop.

But taste is a relative term, and totally subjective. And its the taste of your clients, potential clients and the end listeners that matters in the end. If they love your work, you'll be able to charge more. If they are not as crazy about your work, you'll have a harder time getting paid as much - or at all.

Gear is important, as are the acoustics of your room Chas... and so is the rates charged by your competition. But the most important thing you have to offer is YOU. Investigate what other similarly equipped studios in your area charge, and consider what your time is worth to you, and consider what your value as a session musician is worth and price yourself accordingly.

If you're considering doing this for a living, then my advice to you is - don't do it! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Unless you can't bring yourself to do anything else, and engineering (and / or production) is your absolute passion, it's not worth it. There's more profitable things to do with your time. But if you don't have a choice - because this is who you ARE, and not just something you can DO (even do "well") - then you have no choice - go for it.

FWIW, I think Rick gave you some very good advice.

Best of luck to you with your project. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2003, 12:09 AM
Rick Irvine Rick Irvine is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

When I stated that a rookie with some 57s,and a 002 can kick ass with the right band.
Let me qualify that;
Sometimes the young guys are more willing to experiment,invest alot of thier time,and record bands live or in rehersal spaces,for very little or no pay.They become like another member of the band,or perhaps they are a member of the band.They also probably are more likely to be in touch with and love the music the band is creating,and provide a unique production sense,and vision.
One mans meat is another mans poison.
I know that I have encountered bands that I,quite frankly,didn't know quite what to do with.
Sometimes I think the singing is just plain lousy,and then the next thing you know,there's a band on VH1 that sounds just like them.Then I knew what to do with them. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
As far as a rookie making a living at it.Hell no,but they can lay the groundwork for themselves to establish a good reputation,and create there own sound.Then all the young bands will be trying to get them to record there next demo. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Experience counts for alot of my sucsessfull projects,and every time I record,the end result is a little better.I guess it's just that sometimes I feel I need to throw the tried and true methods(as long as I have the trusty old back-up signal chain,or D.I.ed guitar)out the window to break new ground,and I think the rookie comes by that naturally.Although,like all of us starting out,they'll make some costly mistakes that may hamper the end result of the project. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img] But mistakes are our best teachers. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2003, 02:24 AM
Datus Datus is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

Ill throw my 2 cents in here.

I started out on my 001 not knowing a thing, except what I taught myself. With that I recorded my band. While the results were not horrible, they werent by anymeans great.

Then I decided to take some classes at a local school, just for the hell of it. Turned out I had such a knack for it the professor, who has been doing this kinda stuff for MANY MANY years, and has a very well established reputation with his private studio business, hired me to work for him. I will be the first to admit that I had a lot to learn at that time, and still do. But I am now recording my band again, in fact a few of the same songs, and from what we have laid down already I can tell you my experience has helped a hundred times over. Not to mentiont the $20,000 in outboard pre's and comp's and mic's that my Prof's studio has.

My point. If your recording live gigs, or local music scene, you and your 002 can probably make some good money on the side. If you think you can throw out something that will compete with the high budget productions, theres a slim chance, but its possible. But dont bet your bottom dollar on it either.

Take the advice of the people who have posted here. And here's mine.

Experience means a lot. But don't ever underestimate yourself.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2003, 06:24 AM
Chris Cavell Chris Cavell is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

"Is anybody making a living with their 002?"

Well, I'm trying. Some months business is good, others it's bad. I need to do some more living before I can tell whether it came from the 002 or if I had to resort to something else.
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2003, 07:34 AM
Jack Dawson Jack Dawson is offline
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Default Re: anyone making a living using an 002?

This and similar questions have been asked for years. They all boil down to "Can I make a living recording with "semi-pro" equipment?". I asked myself the same question some years ago when 2" 24trk and +4 levels were king and 1/2" 8trk -10 levels were "junk". I bought the "junk", rented a building, kept the studio booked and kept it going until circumstances intervened. Did I make a living? No. But I did make enough to support the studio and allow some people who couldn't afford the "big boys" to experience the magic that is creating and recording music. And that's what it's all about.

Today we are lucky, the gap between "pro" and "semi-pro" is more narrow that ever before. Technology has made affordable recording systems available to the masses. However, availability does not equate to ability. There will always be a need for an engineer(with facility) who has put in the time, made the mistakes(and learned from them), dealt with the limitations of the equipment(and some of his clients), and knows how to facilitate and capture the magic.

Sorry for the long post, but you know how us old folks like to ramble.

Jack
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