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  #101  
Old 03-01-2015, 06:04 PM
michael c michael c is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

So once you sign on to the support plan, you aren't able to do a Transfer of Ownership? Sorry if I am misunderstanding this. Things are SO much harder these days figuring out what is going on with Avid!

We've been using PT since they went to 24 bit in 1998 ('97?) and have owned Pro Controls, Mix systems, Accel systems and HD systems. Whew, invested a lot of money and I one for have NO idea what is going on. Too busy with our work, but when I now check out the PT12 forum, I just go "huh?"…..
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  #102  
Old 03-01-2015, 06:58 PM
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dr_daw dr_daw is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

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Originally Posted by michael c View Post
So once you sign on to the support plan, you aren't able to do a Transfer of Ownership? Sorry if I am misunderstanding this. Things are SO much harder these days figuring out what is going on with Avid!



We've been using PT since they went to 24 bit in 1998 ('97?) and have owned Pro Controls, Mix systems, Accel systems and HD systems. Whew, invested a lot of money and I one for have NO idea what is going on. Too busy with our work, but when I now check out the PT12 forum, I just go "huh?"…..

From what I understood when I talked to Avid the other day, they're still trying to sort that portion out for PT12/&HD. Right now it seems like the only option is to also sell your iLok with it. From what I understood, if you don't upgrade to the new support plan transfers will follow the same protocol that it does now.
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  #103  
Old 03-01-2015, 08:29 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

I just downloaded and read the TOO pdf, 'updated' Jan. 2015. The line that concerns me is this, in the HD section:

Quote:
*Please note that Pro Tools HD software products that have been upgraded to the newer 2015 support plans and newer Pro Tools HD products which include 2015 support plans are not currently available for transfer.
The first part is rather onerous, IMHO, because it nullifies any purchase being worth anything unless the buyer upgrades to the new plan, then if they do, they can't transfer it themselves if they wish. I don't think I understand that...or do I?

The second part: newer Pro Tools HD products which include 2015 support plans are not currently available for transfer.

What I don't get is 1: I have a newer Pro Tools HD product (my HDX card and my 8x8x8 I/O I/F). If I or the next owner purchases a support plan, does it cover the HW? If not will they need to buy one in addition to the one for the HD software? If so, is the firmware subject to a support plan? If they don't, they are in the clear as far as doing their own TOO, but the hardware is frozen? How the hell do you freeze hardware? This is too convoluted for me to make any sense of.

To me, this is the part and a very nebulous one at that, that would scare me away from purchasing an expensive HDX system.

This really IS like ObamaCare... remember Nancy Pelosi? "We have to pass it so you'll know what's in it..."
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  #104  
Old 03-02-2015, 12:50 AM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKay99 View Post
I just downloaded and read the TOO pdf, 'updated' Jan. 2015. The line that concerns me is this, in the HD section:



The first part is rather onerous, IMHO, because it nullifies any purchase being worth anything unless the buyer upgrades to the new plan, then if they do, they can't transfer it themselves if they wish. I don't think I understand that...or do I?

The second part: newer Pro Tools HD products which include 2015 support plans are not currently available for transfer.

What I don't get is 1: I have a newer Pro Tools HD product (my HDX card and my 8x8x8 I/O I/F). If I or the next owner purchases a support plan, does it cover the HW? If not will they need to buy one in addition to the one for the HD software? If so, is the firmware subject to a support plan? If they don't, they are in the clear as far as doing their own TOO, but the hardware is frozen? How the hell do you freeze hardware? This is too convoluted for me to make any sense of.

To me, this is the part and a very nebulous one at that, that would scare me away from purchasing an expensive HDX system.

This really IS like ObamaCare... remember Nancy Pelosi? "We have to pass it so you'll know what's in it..."
I'm confused by this as well.

It sounds like if you buy an HD system now, you can never sell it and transfer the license.
Which from how I am reading it is, you can sell the hardware but the purchaser either has to own a license or has to purchase a license which you currently can't do without buying the hardware.

I feel you. Obamacare AVID style.

AVID is saying we'll figure it out when we figure it out. If it doesn't work for you, we don't really care.
Got your 599? Because we want it, and you don't have choices anymore with AVID.

WE are here to [beep] you.
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  #105  
Old 03-02-2015, 04:59 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBetrayal View Post
Sounds like things have really gone downhill fast here since my last visit. I've been away at a two day festival here in Australia. What I will say is from the systems I saw, not one of them appeared to be running an AVID system of any kind, so I guess AVID didn't have anything compelling enough for a local sound group with a venue that holds 26,000 to consider. We're talking 40 bands, two days, many big and international acts (Steel Panther, Godsmack, Lamb of God, Fear Factory, Incubus, Slipknot, Slash & Myles Kennedy).
Ahh yes. Easy listening...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBetrayal View Post
Either way, if what I'm reading about HD is correct, then that essentially devalues anyone who has HDX or HD gear on a new plan to almost non-existent, because if you can't buy HD software without hardware, but you can't transfer software with hardware, then that essentially means you're hardware will never be on-sellable, unless the person buying it already has similar gear and is on an HD Support Plan.

Sounds like a bad decision, deciding overnight to invalidate the future value of goods purchased for business. I think we have a clause in Australian law for "Liquidated Damages." Ergo, if a company does something that effectively costs you money, you can sue them for liquidated damages. So where AVID have pushed people onto the new plan with new gear, and have not made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that you would not be able to transfer the entire purchase hardware/software to someone else, then companies can go after AVID for a false pretence which in the end made their purchase worthless the day the bought it so they cannot depreciate it in any real meaningful way.

If this is truly the route they've gone with HD, then I do fear for the future of AVID, as I don't believe they will be able to sustain themselves with the amount of lawsuits coming from companies whom were not made FULLY AWARE that the software license (which has always been transferable in the past), is not longer transferable.

It's like finding out that you can no longer sell your car with a chassis. You can sell the motor, and it can start and stop, but you're not allowed to sell the rest of the car with the motor... essentially it's THAT BAD. Pro Tools HD/HDX gear with the software is essentially an overpriced paperweight...
What really concerns me is, with this plan in place, if I sell my rig for say, $6500 to someone who is not fully aware of this, and they then learn about it and think they've been misled by me, what is MY exposure to legal action?

Or, does the TOO protect me from that? Why would I want to sell my rig to someone knowing they've bought into a mess like this in the first place?
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  #106  
Old 03-02-2015, 06:22 AM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

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Originally Posted by lexaudio View Post
I'm confused by this as well.

It sounds like if you buy an HD system now, you can never sell it and transfer the license.
Which from how I am reading it is, you can sell the hardware but the purchaser either has to own a license or has to purchase a license which you currently can't do without buying the hardware.

I feel you. Obamacare AVID style.

AVID is saying we'll figure it out when we figure it out. If it doesn't work for you, we don't really care.
Got your 599? Because we want it, and you don't have choices anymore with AVID.

WE are here to [beep] you.

If you buy a new HD system now, you can still sell it, because it does not come with a support plan (none of the hardware bundles do). It just comes with HD11, so it's just like if you bought it 2 years ago. You can still transfer the system and software to someone. But if you upgrade it to a support plan, then you can't. At least right now.
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  #107  
Old 03-02-2015, 06:26 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

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Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
You can still transfer the system and software to someone. But if you upgrade it to a support plan, then you can't..

Would this be the same way for native? will you be able to transfer a native hardware purchase?

And after you (if you do) upgrade it you will never be able to transfer that license/hardware?
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  #108  
Old 03-02-2015, 06:33 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

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Originally Posted by CrimsonBetrayal View Post
Exactly. I am not on the HD boat, but given how they are treating those who are, I am actually disgusted. I'm in the process of getting a new computer for my studio as my ageing Mac is starting to show it's dusty bits.

I'm looking at building a Windows PC, because why would I bother to buy a Mac Pro knowing full well that Pro Tools might not be an option in a few years, and all the alternatives (except Logic) work just as well on PC...
One reason, at this point in time anyway, is if Thunderbolt is attractive to you, as a lot of interface gear currently has that as it's primary comm I/F. It's only available and working well on newer Macs. --- Not trying to hijack this important thread...
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  #109  
Old 03-02-2015, 06:47 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

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Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
Would this be the same way for native? will you be able to transfer a native hardware purchase?

And after you (if you do) upgrade it you will never be able to transfer that license/hardware?
From my previous post which has this line copied word for word out of the TOO: newer Pro Tools HD products which include 2015 support plans are not currently available for transfer.

I believe, as to the wording in the TOO, that your Native card and if you have, an Avid HD interface are "newer Pro Tools HD products. So, if you're not on a plan now, you can transfer it. If you buy a plan, you can't.

I think they are trying to protect the software subscription from transfer, but there seems to be a large can of worms spilling over here...

I ALMOST bought a license to get the 3 month extension... glad I didn't. It seems very counter-intuitive to treat the hardware this way. It seems that it would be against anyone with newer hardware's best interests to NOT purchase a support plan...not only that, but if you are running HD software and buy a plan for $599 it's only a software subscription...how can the hardware (and associated firmware) be attached to that? It seems like they won't address that issue with the HW guys. My head is starting to hurt and it's only 9:45 am here.

Bottom line for me is, I only want to make music, and make good records. I love my rig, but Avid has created so much drama for me over it, it's become a burden to the creative process... sheesh!

Wait a minute! newer Pro Tools HD products which include 2015 support plans are not currently available for transfer. So, if the hardware doesn't include a support plan it can be transferred? I need someone with more legal expertise to help with all this...
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  #110  
Old 03-02-2015, 07:08 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Is it really $599/yr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
If you buy a new HD system now, you can still sell it, because it does not come with a support plan (none of the hardware bundles do). It just comes with HD11, so it's just like if you bought it 2 years ago. You can still transfer the system and software to someone. But if you upgrade it to a support plan, then you can't. At least right now.
This leaves someone like me on the precipice. I have 4 more albums to do this year. Do I do them on my current Pro Tools rig? Anyone who uses this stuff know you don't want to start a project with one DAW and finish it on another. Di I take it off line and cobble an alternative together for the rest of the year? Do I hang in there with my 'Partner' Avid and trust they will do the right thing and let me amortize my rig properly if I wait until the end of the year and purchase a support plan, so I can get stuff I don't want?

Maybe I'm unique and Avid's attitude towards me is ignore, it'll go away...
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