Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > macOS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:38 PM
Hugh-H Hugh-H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 188
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Hello,

Depends, SSDs are complicated, sort of.

In theory, especially with your small track counts, you're fine. The audio writing to the SSD along with any OS-demanded disk I/O is tiny. However with the particular SSD you get and the particular OS you install, what is the maintenance plan for the SSD? Is Trim enabled and does it cause problems with your chosen OS version? Is Trim enabled and the drive doesn't need it? Is garbage collection adequate on the drive or not available? If you don't know what I mean by all this then do some research on those topics to make sure you don't run into issues in the middle of a recording.

With your limited track count and most decent SSDs you'll be fine. I never trust it to "just work".

Hugh
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:43 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,174
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Another question has come up as I've researched this. For some time now the old adage of a second drive for audio being mandatory has been challenged. As a number of these refurbished MBP's have been retrofitted with 1TB SSD drives, I'm wondering if that would be a viable alternative to a second drive or external drive. Being new to the world of laptops, are there additional considerations where this is concerned?
Not with the old MBP with SATA drives which what is being looked at here. A SATA SSD does not reliably have the performance to not want a dedicated audio drive. And this is live tracking so you can't afford to risk what "might work". When you move to the latest generation PCIe 3 x 4 lane NVMe drives like current MBP they are much faster, and running everything off the boot drive is not only possible, it's likely better than using external drives.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:57 PM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 471
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh-H View Post
Hello,

Depends, SSDs are complicated, sort of.

In theory, especially with your small track counts, you're fine. The audio writing to the SSD along with any OS-demanded disk I/O is tiny. However with the particular SSD you get and the particular OS you install, what is the maintenance plan for the SSD? Is Trim enabled and does it cause problems with your chosen OS version? Is Trim enabled and the drive doesn't need it? Is garbage collection adequate on the drive or not available? If you don't know what I mean by all this then do some research on those topics to make sure you don't run into issues in the middle of a recording.

With your limited track count and most decent SSDs you'll be fine. I never trust it to "just work".

Hugh
I did do some reading about SSD-specific issues in their early days, when their limited number of writes and re-writes was a hot topic. Then later the technology supposedly matured to where that wasn't much of an issue any more. But the drives have remained expensive enough that I only rely on them for system and video streaming drives, and only on more recent systems. For location work, I would on occasion need them to be able to handle 20+ simultaneous tracks for extended periods. No riskiness allowed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Not with the old MBP with SATA drives which what is being looked at here. A SATA SSD does not reliably have the performance to not want a dedicated audio drive. And this is live tracking so you can't afford to risk what "might work". When you move to the latest generation PCIe 3 x 4 lane NVMe drives like current MBP they are much faster, and running everything off the boot drive is not only possible, it's likely better than using external drives.
Agreed. Better to stick with what's known to be reliable with the technology of the day.
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2019.6, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Quad; Mac Pro 8-core 2.67, 32GB RAM, High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro 10.4.6, Apogee Rosetta 800, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Sierra, MOTU LP32, Pro Tools 2018.3
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:21 AM
VRW VRW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
I still lean toward RME since their drivers are always so reliable
RME drivers are one of the most reliable ones on the market indeed. Especially with Windows/PC system you hardly will find anything
working better than RME.

Therefor if you intend using the interface on both, Windows and Mac, you will be better off with the RME for sure.
If you are pretty sure to use it only on Mac the Motu might be more interesting because of the more current tech and the 8 channels+.

As for SSDs and Pro Tools recording Darryl has covered it all basically.

With 2011-2012 Macbook Pro models you still have the option to replace all the stuff like drives, memory, battery etc. easily yourself
which will give you the choice to put in any 2.5" SATA drive you want (7200rpm HDDs or SATA SSDs). And you can replace it yourself
later again if there should be any issue or just the need for more storage space or speed. Thatīs the advantage of using older Macbooks.

However with the newer Apple Flash drives or anything similar (PCie etc. based) you definitely can record to the one and only internal
drive (even with Pro Tools) as these are fast and reliable enough now.
With SATA SSDs (which are the ones you would use for 2011-2012 MBPs) you theoretically can do it as well but it ainīt a reliable thing
at the end of the day.

I have used both and have done it with both kinda systems several times.

With the Apple Flash drive there never was any issue at all. It flew so that I even didnīt notice that there was "hard work" going on.
With the SATA SSDs (and I even used Samsung 850 Pro models with Trim enabled on a very clean and Pro Tools ready system) it at first
was no problem as well but when it got "heavier" there were little issues from time to time. Nothing serious but when you are doing live
recordings only one single drop out can be a real problem.

To sum it up. With 2011-2012 Macbooks (and the suiting SATA SSDs) you better stick to using an extra drive for your Pro Tools audio.
Just for reliability and stability. You might use a 256GB SATA SSD for the system drive (128GB might work but 256GB provide more stability)
and a second SATA SSD of any amount of storage space you might need for your PT projects. You should be fine with such kinda set up.

The best of success to you again.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:10 AM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 471
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

And thanks again. I did end up ordering that 2011 unit that was already tricked out, and will replace the second drive with a faster one. And as much as I trust RME, I've opted for the MOTU LP32 in this case, partly because of the extra eight channels, but mostly because the RME unit lacks word clock. So the process begins....
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2019.6, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Quad; Mac Pro 8-core 2.67, 32GB RAM, High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro 10.4.6, Apogee Rosetta 800, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Sierra, MOTU LP32, Pro Tools 2018.3
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:10 AM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 471
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Due to a listing error, the seller ended up sending me a more recent 2012 model with a large SSD system drive, but without the Superdrive swapped out. I've always been most comfortable recording to an internal drive, but this MBP has FW 800 and USB 3.0 ports, so I'm tempted to go external as I know countless folks do this all the time without issue. Any performance advantage/disadvantage recording externally with these systems?
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2019.6, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Quad; Mac Pro 8-core 2.67, 32GB RAM, High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro 10.4.6, Apogee Rosetta 800, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Sierra, MOTU LP32, Pro Tools 2018.3
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:36 AM
QuikDraw QuikDraw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Yucaipa, California, USA
Posts: 2,102
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
...but this MBP has FW 800 and USB 3.0 ports, so I'm tempted to go external as I know countless folks do this all the time without issue. Any performance advantage/disadvantage recording externally with these systems?
I routinely track to a Samsung T3 256 GB USB 3.0 SSD. It's actually connected to a USB 2 hub, and it doesn't even break a sweat tracking 32 tracks live. Works well in both Sierra and Win 10 (Bootcamp)
__________________
-- Mike
- MacBook Pro 15.4" (9,1) - 2.3 GHz i7 16GB RAM
- OS X 10.14.1 Mojave / Windows 10 (Bootcamp) - PT running on Windows partition
- PreSonus Quantum 2
- PreSonus Studio 24c
- MBox 3 Mini
- Mackie Onyx 1640i
- Behringer X32 Producer
- PT 2018.12 (vanilla)
- Various USB2/3 and Firewire hard drives
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-04-2017, 12:17 PM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 471
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikDraw View Post
I routinely track to a Samsung T3 256 GB USB 3.0 SSD. It's actually connected to a USB 2 hub, and it doesn't even break a sweat tracking 32 tracks live. Works well in both Sierra and Win 10 (Bootcamp)
Good to know, thanks. I'm actually reconsidering now, though, as I think about the convenience of one fewer item to tote and connect. These things become more important as one enters old age.
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2019.6, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Quad; Mac Pro 8-core 2.67, 32GB RAM, High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro 10.4.6, Apogee Rosetta 800, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Sierra, MOTU LP32, Pro Tools 2018.3
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-05-2017, 01:05 AM
VRW VRW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Due to a listing error, the seller ended up sending me a more recent 2012 model with a large SSD system drive, but without the Superdrive swapped out. I've always been most comfortable recording to an internal drive, but this MBP has FW 800 and USB 3.0 ports, so I'm tempted to go external as I know countless folks do this all the time without issue. Any performance advantage/disadvantage recording externally with these systems?
If thereīs still a Superdrive built in you quite easily can swap it out yourself. Thatīs really no big deal.
This is the installation video.
https://eshop.macsales.com/installvi...body_mid12_dd/

These are the tools and parts you will need to get it done.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDMBSSD500/

Even if 3G SSDs/drives will not be that fast like 6G SSDs/drives you may use a 3G SSD/drive for the optical bay as these will
work more reliably with that controller. It will be a bit slower (about 250mb/s) in comparison to the 6G SSDs (about 400mb/s)
but still a lot faster than any 7200rpm HDD (about 90mb/s) which still is the standard PT requirement.

You would not have to worry about speed even with the 3G SSD at all.

If you rather would not prefer to do the DIY replacement of your optical drive you still can use any external SSD/7200rpm HDD
via FW800 or USB3. This definitely should work out too with Pro Tools.

The most affordable yet very fast solution will be to put such a SSD
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-MZ-75...+850+Evo&psc=1
into such an external enclosure
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KYF1LLI?psc=1
and connect it to your USB 3 port.

If you are on a tight budget or you tend to trust more in mechanical drives than in SSDs for your Pro Tools audio in general, this
would be a very affordable yet reliable and useable external drive solution as well.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Lacie/301983/
(500GB 7200rpm HDD, Firewire 800 and USB 3 connection)

And, yes, of course you can try to record to your internal SSD as well but I highly recommend to do some test drives before recording
serious, important stuff and even live concerts just to see how the system will behave under stress. Basically this is no recommended
way to work with Pro Tools. Except you are using PCie based SSDs like Apple Flash drives etc.

The best of success to you whichever route you decide to go finally.

Cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-05-2017, 01:04 PM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 471
Default Re: Minimum System for Recording Only

Thanks. I will be ordering a mod kit from OWC, and have decided to stick with a plain old 7200 RPM drive. Can't quite justify the extra expense of an SSD recording drive when the spinning drives have been so consistently successful for so long.
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2019.6, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Quad; Mac Pro 8-core 2.67, 32GB RAM, High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro 10.4.6, Apogee Rosetta 800, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Sierra, MOTU LP32, Pro Tools 2018.3
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Minimum System Patricky General Discussion 1 08-15-2005 01:06 PM
buying used TDM. What is the minimum system? tapani Pro Tools TDM Systems (Win) 6 04-01-2005 04:43 PM
What's the Bare Minimum for a 888/24 system? Java Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 03-27-2002 12:51 AM
Bare Minimum System? MaxQ Digidesign Hardware & Software 0 12-12-2000 02:35 PM
MLCD Minimum system ?? HoosierSnd Digidesign Hardware & Software 2 08-07-1998 08:56 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com