Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-23-2020, 08:43 AM
Alexrkstr Alexrkstr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 175
Default Revert back to 003?

I recently added a few synths to my setup and I have a question about signal conversion and interfaces, which may have an impact on the DAW and interface I use....

This is my setup:
- I have an Apollo Twin Duo Thunderbolt (only a stereo balanced +ADAT optical)
- I also own a Digi003 console (but this has been superseded by the Apollo)
- I’ve switched from ProTools 12 to Ableton Live as my main DAW
- I have a MacBook Pro 2012, i7, 2.6, RAM maxed out; I believe this is the last config that works with the digi003 because of the fw connection
- I have the need for the following instruments (needs for inputs):
1) Kemper (via S/PDIF digital)
2) Yamaha EX5 (AES/AEB digital)
3) Yamaha Motif ES7 (stereo balanced TRS)
4) Roland JV-1080 (stereo balanced TRS)
5&6) Mic for vocals / guitars (2 mic inputs)

My assumptions are (please could someone confirm?)
- I assume that keeping the digital signal is better than converting to analog and back to digital, therefore ideally I find an interface with AES/AEB input or 2 optical ins. I can convert the AES/AEB to optical (toslink or S/PDIF)
- While mic pres vary widely in quality and sonic color, digital signal transfer is the same regardless of the interface quality (e.g., Behringer, Avid, Apollo digital inputs are the same)

Questions:
- the Yamaha EX5 distorts at a certain volume level (signal seems to be saturated), which is why I am trying to use the AES/AEB digital output. Am I right by thinking this will be better as there will be no “analog distortion”?
- Am I better off just reverting back to the Digi003, which has all the necessary inputs but it’s older technology? (I would have to sacrifice the UA plugins)
- What else should I consider?
__________________
15" MacBook Pro 9,1 mid-2012 15in 2.6HGz i7, 16GB RAM, OS 10.12.1 | OWC 320GB FW400 7200rpm
Digi 003 | PT 12.4
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-25-2020, 11:29 AM
nigelpry's Avatar
nigelpry nigelpry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home
Posts: 2,166
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

Don’t forget the 003 console as control surface trick, described in this post by me ...
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2434397&postcount=8

I can confirm it still works with Pro Tools 2020.5. This way you get to use the far superior UA Apollo as the audio interface, while still getting to use the control surface features of the 003.
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10
iMac 2012 27", 3.4ghz i7, 32gb RAM OS 10.14.6
Digi 003 Console for control surface only, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2022.4, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 11, Wavelab Pro 11, Logic Pro X 10.5.1, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2020, 12:58 PM
Alexrkstr Alexrkstr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 175
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

Thanks for the link. Can you still use the 003's inputs or is it only limited to be the control surface?
__________________
15" MacBook Pro 9,1 mid-2012 15in 2.6HGz i7, 16GB RAM, OS 10.12.1 | OWC 320GB FW400 7200rpm
Digi 003 | PT 12.4
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2020, 04:45 PM
nigelpry's Avatar
nigelpry nigelpry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home
Posts: 2,166
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

No you can’t use the 003 audio inputs, you just use the control surface.

Best of both worlds, the UA apollo audio ins and outs are far superior to the 003.

How many things do you need to record at the same time?

The Twin’s optical input can be set to receive 2 channels of S/PDIF, or 8 channels of ADAT.

So if you need more than the two mic/line inputs simultaneously, you could get an analog to ADAT convertor, something cheap and cheerful like the Behringer ADA8200 for under £200, or the sky’s the limit if you have a bigger budget. That would give you 8 extra analog inputs, so you would have 10 in all.

If you want to record the AES output of the EX5, because you think the analog outputs are distorting, then get an AES to S/PDIF convertor, under £40. Do you think the EX5 analog outputs are faulty? Or is it just a gain staging issue?

Do you need everything connected at the same time just for convenience? Or because multiple people will be playing instruments at the same time.

If just for convenience, and because you don’t want to be continually plugging/unplugging leads from the apollo, you could use a small patchbay.

If multiple people, then Analog to ADAT convertor is the way to go.

PS when using the 003 as a control surface, the midi connections will still work too.
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10
iMac 2012 27", 3.4ghz i7, 32gb RAM OS 10.14.6
Digi 003 Console for control surface only, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2022.4, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 11, Wavelab Pro 11, Logic Pro X 10.5.1, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2020, 09:42 PM
Alexrkstr Alexrkstr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 175
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

Thanks for the thorough response! Here are my responses

- yes, I looked at Behringer’s ADAT option, but wouldn’t that quality input be lower than the 003? My understanding is the quality is as good as the weakest link and the B converters are not that great. (I’m actually looking at a fireface 400 or 800, but that’s costly)
- I need the inputs for my own convenience to not have to hook up things on and off and just have a good workflow. I have a Behringer mixer that I hate - I tested recordings with and without it and the difference is night and day
- can you point me to the right place to find the $40 converter! I can’t find it myself. I bought a Hosa 312 and an AES/EBU cable to go optical to the Apollo, but would be great to see this other option
__________________
15" MacBook Pro 9,1 mid-2012 15in 2.6HGz i7, 16GB RAM, OS 10.12.1 | OWC 320GB FW400 7200rpm
Digi 003 | PT 12.4
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-26-2020, 12:27 AM
nigelpry's Avatar
nigelpry nigelpry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home
Posts: 2,166
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

Regarding analog to ADAT, yes there are way better convertors, but it is what your budget will handle.

The newer Behringer ADA8200 is better than the original ADA8000, the MIDAS mic preamps in the newer model are better, and at least as good as the 003.

One thing to be very careful of, and something that has caught many people out, the XLR mic socket and TRS jack socket are both active at all times, whereas most kit is switching, where plugging in a TRS jack breaks the XLR circuit. DO NOT have both XLR and Jack plugs connected to the same input at the same time, depending on what is connected that can badly affect noise levels.

I suggest using mics via the Apollo and use the Behringer (or something more expensive if you can afford it) for the keyboard outputs. Bear in mind that the keyboard outputs are probably the weakest link in terms of noise, but with correct adjustment of gain levels, coupled with some simple eq on the channel in your daw, you will keep it down to a level that shouldn’t trouble you.

As for cheap AES to S/PDIF convertor, in the UK we have this ...

https://www.studiospares.com/studios...ter_465760.htm

and it only costs £34.99!
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10
iMac 2012 27", 3.4ghz i7, 32gb RAM OS 10.14.6
Digi 003 Console for control surface only, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2022.4, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 11, Wavelab Pro 11, Logic Pro X 10.5.1, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-27-2020, 12:47 PM
albee1952's Avatar
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 39,292
Default Re: Revert back to 003?

I doubt that anyone will hear a quality difference between the ADA8200 and the 003. But, if you can budget around $900, the Midas XL48 is stellar fro recording drums
__________________
HP Z4 workstation, Mbox Studio
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink, the more I mix

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Revert back to 12.7 from 12.8.1 Media Man Pro Tools 12 4 10-09-2017 09:40 AM
Revert Back To Firmware 1.02. Possible? PeeTee Eleven Rack 18 12-23-2011 09:27 PM
How can I revert back to 8.04cs2 lexaudio Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 2 07-22-2011 11:52 AM
What is the best way to revert back to 8.01? TheBaron 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 11 01-20-2010 12:57 PM
How do I revert back to 7.4.2 PTrust 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 01-01-2009 09:56 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com