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  #1  
Old 05-10-2011, 08:43 AM
AlessandroRatoci AlessandroRatoci is offline
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Default Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Dear Colleagues, i would like to have a serious discussion on this topic:

I bought an 2 expensive AVID controller (artist series) to find out that i could not use the MIDI learn function on RTAS window, a great tool that is available only to people that spent 1/10 on a M-Audio keyboard...or 1/3 on a C8 control surface....

Of course the RTAS Midi Learning it is NOT the same the Nocturn Automap, as it takes very long time to correct the ugly random automatic mappings made by the Novation joke and you cannot map multiple plugins on the same page.
Same applies to the Eucon (Now Avid Artists...etc) plugin mapping which is very rudimental compared to a customizable MIDI learning approach (a la Ableton or a la PRO TOOLS With M-Audio Keyboards!!!!)

I could reverse engineer the C8 Handshake and make a MAX MSP Application (this is what i am really doing) but i think is more responsible to try to discuss this issue with Avid community, which i think is penalizing the end user with this strange No-MIDI strategy that i cannot understand from the technical and marketing profile... Hope to have beeen clear...
Alessandro

there is an ideascale on the subject

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...IDI/12664-3779
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:30 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Are you asking about control of plug-in parameters or fader/pan control? I see those as separate issues. I'm pretty sure that any device that sends MIDI control data can be used to control any plug-in that has MIDI-learn enabled parameters. If the Artist Series control surfaces don't send MIDI data - well, that's not Pro Tool's fault. That's a hardware issue for Eucon to consider.

The Ideascale suggestion you linked to is a request for Pro Tools to allow MIDI controllers to map to its soft faders and pans - which it used to be able to do 10 or 15 years ago in the old 16-bit days. It was kind of cool for roughing in mixes. But MIDI's 128 steps don't provide near enough resolution for serious mixing, especially with a 24-bit engine. 144 dB/128 steps - you really want to hear 1.125 dB jumps as you move your fader up and down?

But as I say, even if PT implemented that, it won't help you achieve your desire to map Artist Series controllers to RTAS plug-ins unless they send MIDI data.
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:29 PM
gsilbers gsilbers is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlessandroRatoci View Post
Dear Colleagues, i would like to have a serious discussion on this topic:

I bought an 2 expensive AVID controller (artist series) to find out that i could not use the MIDI learn function on RTAS window, a great tool that is available only to people that spent 1/10 on a M-Audio keyboard...or 1/3 on a C8 control surface....

Of course the RTAS Midi Learning it is NOT the same the Nocturn Automap, as it takes very long time to correct the ugly random automatic mappings made by the Novation joke and you cannot map multiple plugins on the same page.
Same applies to the Eucon (Now Avid Artists...etc) plugin mapping which is very rudimental compared to a customizable MIDI learning approach (a la Ableton or a la PRO TOOLS With M-Audio Keyboards!!!!)

I could reverse engineer the C8 Handshake and make a MAX MSP Application (this is what i am really doing) but i think is more responsible to try to discuss this issue with Avid community, which i think is penalizing the end user with this strange No-MIDI strategy that i cannot understand from the technical and marketing profile... Hope to have beeen clear...
Alessandro

there is an ideascale on the subject

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...IDI/12664-3779
agree. its still the stupidest thing ever with tech that u cannot control stuff like u would in ableton live's one click assignment.
the artist series is a joke. so much money for something that a chinese company with german ripoff design could make for such a low price.

but u also should of looked into it. there are hundreds of threads about folks complaining that there is no midi cc impementation in the eucons even when hans zimmer himself had something to do with the design. or something (ask me if i care if i got it wrong)

yes, automap sucks big time. eucon as well...
i now gave all that up for a new crappy maudio oxygen which has directlink (works as good as eucon minus the nice faders) and u assign it different midi cc to control SOME plugins. some plugins have right click for quick assign, and some accept the generic most used controls like filter cutoff, expression etc.

i think with apples logic X if and when it comes out it should have something better than its crappy midi learn function which sucks and if and when it does come out then avid of course will ripp it off as it did with most of pt9 gui. which for me, its a good thing. as both hopefullt will ripoff ableton live quick and easy assign function whihc is the best so far.
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2011, 12:26 AM
KroNEe KroNEe is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

So Avid ripped off the UI of Logic??? Logic is a very powerful DAW, but the UI is why I will never use it. I must say I am not following you with that "Logic"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
agree. its still the stupidest thing ever with tech that u cannot control stuff like u would in ableton live's one click assignment.
the artist series is a joke. so much money for something that a chinese company with german ripoff design could make for such a low price.

but u also should of looked into it. there are hundreds of threads about folks complaining that there is no midi cc impementation in the eucons even when hans zimmer himself had something to do with the design. or something (ask me if i care if i got it wrong)

yes, automap sucks big time. eucon as well...
i now gave all that up for a new crappy maudio oxygen which has directlink (works as good as eucon minus the nice faders) and u assign it different midi cc to control SOME plugins. some plugins have right click for quick assign, and some accept the generic most used controls like filter cutoff, expression etc.

i think with apples logic X if and when it comes out it should have something better than its crappy midi learn function which sucks and if and when it does come out then avid of course will ripp it off as it did with most of pt9 gui. which for me, its a good thing. as both hopefullt will ripoff ableton live quick and easy assign function whihc is the best so far.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2011, 04:15 AM
AlessandroRatoci AlessandroRatoci is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Daron, you probably don't know what we are talking about.... i try just to be constructive. I am not complaining that eucon don't send midi, and it could send without problem, it opens 5 Midi port on your computer when you install the eucon software (Named Euphonix midi 1...5)

THE PROBLEM IS that the MIDI LEARN Function of RTAS Plugins is available only if you select COMMAND 8 or M AUDIO Keyboard on the MIDI Peripheals setup.....

So you cannot use a generic (EVEN a uc33 that is M AUDIO) MIDI controller to control the plugin. I AM SPEAKING OF PLUGINS.....level and send are perfect with Artist Series...More clear?
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2011, 04:16 AM
AlessandroRatoci AlessandroRatoci is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

I am speaking of using generic MIDI protocol to control PLUGINS in Pro Tools. This is possible, is just artificially limited if you buy a crap M-Audio Keyboard!!!
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2011, 05:05 AM
jntracks jntracks is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

have you tried HUI?

this is how i did what you're talking about. but i have a novation keyboard. does HUI not work with non novation keyboards?
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2011, 07:19 AM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Multiple-account RaToX is back? And he is indignantly complaining about something? Shocking.
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2011, 10:53 AM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

The EuCon protocol allow manufacturers to implement whatever controls they wish over a plug-in. All plug-ins (that I've used) already have their parameters mapped to controls in EuCon - so I'm a little unclear why you would want MIDI control separately.

Can you give me an example where EuCon doesn't already control a parameter in a plug-in? Or a case where you'd need to map outside of EuCon?
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2011, 12:08 PM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: Why on earth we cannot use generic midi controllers to control plugin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlessandroRatoci View Post
I am speaking of using generic MIDI protocol to control PLUGINS in Pro Tools. This is possible, is just artificially limited if you buy a crap M-Audio Keyboard!!!
OK, but the Ideascale link you provided is about something else. It reads "Please add Support for custom ControlSurface that connect via MIDI, and allow MidiLearn to setup Faders and Buttons!" You can see why that threw me off?
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