Producer credits?

[bzldzl]

Hello,

Question for you guys and gals about when you think as an engineer you should get producer credits. Not always for a percentage of album sales but at least for credits on the album.

For example, the band I am working with now does not have a producer. They gave me some albums and said we want to sound like this. So I listen to the tones, reverbs, delays, panning, etc. and implement that stuff on their sessions. To me that is very much producing.

Please let me know what you think and how you have handled this situation.

Thanks,
Jason

[Slim Shady]

What you're talking about is still pretty much engineering. Every producer plays a different role and does different things on a session, but in general it involves doing a lot of work before the session, like finding sounds to match, arranging the tunes and coming up with parts for each instrument.

Since they actually did the pre-production work of finding sounds etc. that they like, so they're more entitled to the producer credit at this point - trying to match those sounds is just standard engineer fare. If you were more involved with "you should put a piano part that goes such-and-such" here, or "lets cut the bridge in half" or that kind of stuff, you'd be more in the producer realm.

In contrast to all I've said so far though, in a lot of cases where I work with a band that doesn't have a producer I end up sharing producing credit with them - although most of the time they approach me about it before the session starts. Usually because they don't know much about mixing or may not even have an idea of what instruments should play what parts etc. If they're just telling you what sounds to get and when to hit record, I don't think you can claim to be a producer just yet. If you end up doing the mixing without them around, then you might be able to swing it.

Slim

[audioeric]

Most of the production credits I've seen, the person has had some role in financing the whole deal.. Just making it sound a certain way is just being an engineer.. Maybe you should be looking to get mixing credits, but I doubt you really produced the album..

Also, you really want an outside producer.. Someone that's not friends with the band is a GREAT asset.. It really gives an outside opinion that is much needed, and the band needs to respect that person's decisions.. I'm currently working on a project that a member of the band is also producing, and it's just not working out the best way. They end up speeding through other people's parts, then wanting to spend forever on their part, and wanting their part to be the dominate part of the whole thing.. Just not a good situation..

Being a producer is definitely more involved than just sounds.. but, this is just my .02.. you're not a producer..

eric

[bzldzl]

Cool, great input. So basically; if they say you mix this and we'll say if we like it or not, if I help write parts or arrangment ideas, if they want me to bring ideas to the table about what the album should sound like instead of them bringing in all the source material, then these might be more producer type contributions?

It's definetly better when they have an actual producer, I learn a lot from those sessions.

I'm just trying to figure out where this imanginary line might exist. Not so much because I want to be a producer but if I am doing producer duties it would be nice to know and be credited for.

Thanks,
Jason

[Slim Shady]

Yes, exactly. A producer is usually involved with a band or artist long before they hit the studio. They're usually working with them at rehearsals, coming up with track sheets, arrangements etc. They're also the one at the session working with whoever's tracking to try and coax the best take out of them - it's a lot of people/ego management on top of music/arrangement management.

BTW, I've never known a producer to be involved financially - that's what a movie producer does, but not a music producer. The producer either gets a flat fee or points from the label or band (whoever's backing it), but for them to actually be dropping their own money into the project is pretty rare.

Slim

[bzldzl]

Cool, thanks.

[citi]

I think the term he was looking for was "Executive" producer. The one that spends all the money

[O.G. Killa]

just to add my experiences to this...I am a sound engineer and I have been moving over to producing artists lately.

There are all different types of producers and responsibilities that go along with being a producer. But in the end the producer is, in a way, the manager of the album. A record label, Manager, artist or investor hires a producer to deliver a product that will be marketable and that people will want to buy, and this product has to be produced within a certain budget. It's kind of an extension of A&R. And I think that's why a lot of producers eventually move into A&R. But these days A&R seems more business oriented than creative. And I feel that is why the producer's role has become a bigger deal these days. He/she is kind of the creative arm of A&R for the A&R department of the record label. But then again...every situation is totally different.

In the end, if an album sucks it's usually the producer's fault. What ever the reason might be for it sucking, the drums don't groove, the vocals are out of tune, the recording is noisy, etc...it doesn't matter. The producer should have been able to recognize whatever the deficiencies were/are and correct them. The drummer in the band can't play to a click, then hire a professional drummer to ghost the session. The guitarist's Peavey guitar amp isn't cutting it, then rent a good one! The singer/band members can't sing harmonies to save their lives, then hire singers that can to do backgrounds. The songs are way too long and radio will never play them, then rearrange the songs to be shorter. The guitar and bass parts have minor second intervals between them becuase the band plays so loud they never noticed what the other bandmembers were playing, then it's time to rewrite instrument parts. The artist looks great and has a great voice but can't compose at all, then it's time to start writing songs for the artist.

The producer is also the one responsible for keeping the costs under control. If the recordings go over budget, it's the producer that has to go and ask for more money. And he is also the one who gets reamed for it. It is the producer that is responsible for making sure everyone got paid, and that everyone signed union contracts, and needs to make sure that the label actually did clear the use of the samples the band wants to use so that the label/band doesn't get sued down the road. Most labels/producers will hire a production coordinator to handle these tasks, but in the end it still falls on the producer's shoulders to make sure it gets done.

These are just a few of the "details" producers usually have to deal with on a daily basis. What the producer's strong points are and how he/she delegates his/her authority to others to handle certain aspects of these task kind of dictates what type of producer he/she is. There are the more composer-type producers like a David Foster, there are the more engineer-type producers like a Hugh Padgam, there are the progamming/arranger type producers like Dr. Dre, etc..etc..etc...

In the end, what makes someone a producer is the record label puts their trust in that person to deliver something the record label will be able to sell. If it doesn't sell then you're a bad producer. If it does sell then you're a great/famous producer! If an album bombs you could turn around and say it's not the producer's fault because the songs sucked. Well, it is part of the producer's responsibility to be able to hear that a song sucks and either re-write it, hire someone else to re-write it or scrap it.

In a way, that's why people in the A&R/Production industry always say you're only as good as the last thing you did. Because if you've done 3 hit albums...and then the fourth one is a dud, the labels are going to be skeptical about hiring you again. They don't want to shell out millions if you're going to produce another dud.

After the recording is done and handed in...it is then on the shoulders of the marketing department to sell it to the world. And hopefully, if the producer did his job correctly, the marketing and promotions people will be able get it on the air and get people to buy it.

Anyway...like I said, this is just based on my experiences as an engineer watching what producers go through, and more recently starting to do it myself. Other peoples experiences may be totally different. And mine might be as well in a couple years from now.