How many samples delay can most people track with

[Andy Gone]

Originally Posted by Raoul23

Why 48k I've heard lots of fors and against due to dithering maths at bounce down.
I wanted to track with Waves c4 on and this introduces quite a large amount of dly, so I'm wondering what's the lowest dly people have had and what's the highest before clients have noticed the latency

Generally people start noticing @ about 50 ms of latency (depends on hearing training though). You can always manually shift the recorded stem later if your workflow allows for it.

Also I suggest to check Waves latency chart: for some plugins you get less latency with higher sampling rate. But C4 latency is only about 1.5 ms, this should not be a prob.

[NewdestinyX]

The standard of the industry for years has been sub 2ms of latency is what's needed in a DAW so drummers, especially, don't sense the latency. Guitar, Bass, Keys, sax, etc can bear much more latency and not sense it.. Oddly, 2nd to drummers, vocalists are the next to sense latency above 2ms.

50ms? No way is that acceptable for a drummer or vocalist. Will sound like they're playing thru a doubler plug in. a la "Stray Cats" - from back In the day....

[Amack]

Isn't that why most people (?) use direct monitoring while recording? That way, with the X32 you get 1ms latency rather than the 50ms latency minimum (no added delay from inserts, etc.) when monitoring through the DAW?

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

The standard of the industry for years has been sub 2ms of latency is what's needed in a DAW so drummers, especially, don't sense the latency. Guitar, Bass, Keys, sax, etc can bear much more latency and not sense it.. Oddly, 2nd to drummers, vocalists are the next to sense latency above 2ms.

50ms? No way is that acceptable for a drummer or vocalist. Will sound like they're playing thru a doubler plug in. a la "Stray Cats" - from back In the day....

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by Amack

Isn't that why most people (?) use direct monitoring while recording? That way, with the X32 you get 1ms latency rather than the 50ms latency minimum (no added delay form inserts, etc.) when monitoring through the DAW?

Many of us like to cut using plugins. Engaging Direct Monitoring in a DAW will disconnect plugins from running on the record enabled tracks. So one reason a pro purchases HD is for the ability to have sub-2ms latency while using AAX DSP plugins (or, in the past, TDM plugins) on record-enabled tracks.

[Amack]

Thank you. You might want to look at http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2267209&postcount=75!

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

Many of us like to cut using plugins. Engaging Direct Monitoring in a DAW will disconnect plugins from running on the record enabled tracks. So one reason a pro purchases HD is for the ability to have sub-2ms latency while using AAX DSP plugins (or, in the past, TDM plugins) on record-enabled tracks.

[Amack]

NewdestinyX,

Neither HD nor HDX are required to achieve perceived monitoring latency less than 2 ms with modern 3rd party interfaces that contain mixers (as does HDX). And unlike HD native, which disables plugins on the record enabled tracks for its "Low Latency Monitoring", that isn't necessary with those devices. Also, since the perceived latency when monitoring directly through such devices is independent of PT's "H/W Buffer Size(s)", the size can be increased to help ensure PT "stability" during those critical activities.

Sorry if this is too "Tech Talky" - maybe you can translate for me again?

Thanks!
Amack

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

Many of us like to cut using plugins. Engaging Direct Monitoring in a DAW will disconnect plugins from running on the record enabled tracks. So one reason a pro purchases HD is for the ability to have sub-2ms latency while using AAX DSP plugins (or, in the past, TDM plugins) on record-enabled tracks.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by Amack

NewdestinyX,



Neither HD nor HDX are required to achieve perceived monitoring latency less than 2 ms with modern 3rd party interfaces that contain mixers (as does HDX). And unlike HD native, which disables plugins on the record enabled tracks for its "Low Latency Monitoring", that isn't necessary with those devices. Also, since the perceived latency when monitoring directly through such devices is independent of PT's "H/W Buffer Size(s)", the size can be increased to help ensure PT "stability" during those critical activities.



Sorry if this is too "Tech Talky" - maybe you can translate for me again?



Thanks!

Amack

I know what I'm talking about Amack. I've been doing this a very long time. I assure you it's not possible to achieve sub 2ms latency in Native systems monitoring thru plugins in real time while recording at 48K.

Like I said. That's why pros still gravitate to HD Hardware.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by cwsand

I record at 48k since it's just easier if you're also working with video not to have to change the sample rate all the time. With most (if not all) 3rd party interfaces, you have to close Pro Tools to change the sample rate - a real PITA, especially since Pro Tools doesn't always boot right up recognizing the change.

Chris - I notice you have a Focusrite, as do I (Scarlett 8i6). There is a workaround that helps make changing sample rates less of a PITA that works on Windows systems anyways.

First, get hold of ASIO4All if you don't already have it, and install it on your Windows system, and set it up as an interface option in PT.

Now create dummy PT sessions for each sample rate you want to have available. I just normally use 44.1k and 48k, so I just have 2. So, let's say you're currently set at 44.1k. Create a new dummy PT session and call it 44-1 Sample Dummy or something. Save and close without putting doing anything else. Now create a new dummy session for, say 48k. Once opened, change your interface from the Focusrite (or any other interface you may be using) to ASIO4ALL. ASIO4ALL will pick up the new sample rate. I usually hit play just to be sure, but 99.9% of the time the play marker moves and all is well. Now, switch back to your regular interface. You should be able to hit play and it will work. If so, just save the dummy session, and then go open whatever session you were planning to work on at the new sample rate. Rinse and repeat for other sample rates. Now when I want to switch sample rates, I first just open the dummy session at the new rate, switch to ASIO4ALL and back to my Focusrite, close the dummy session, and off I go.

It is a bit of a PITA, but much less so than re-booting PT or even the entire system 2 or 3 times to get the new sample rate to change. I've found doing it this way only takes an extra minute or so.

[Amack]

NewdestinyX,

I wasn't talking about PT|HD Native, I was talking about regular PT with 3rd party interfaces. I'll likely get slammed again if I post a link to more info, but you can find it toward the end of the Measuring Latency thread that was closed recently.

Amack

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

I know what I'm talking about Amack. I've been doing this a very long time. I assure you it's not possible to achieve sub 2ms latency in Native systems monitoring thru plugins in real time while recording at 48K.

Like I said. That's why pros still gravitate to HD Hardware.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by Amack

NewdestinyX,

I wasn't talking about PT|HD Native,

Neither was I. Read more carefully, Amack. You miss very important things when we're talking to you. Slow down. I never mentioned HD|Native.

I was talking about regular PT with 3rd party interfaces.

So was I. My answer was regarding regular ProTools with 3rd party interfaces. With them - it is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve sub-2ms latency at 48K and listen to plugins at the same time. The only way to achieve it is to turn on LOW LATENCY MONITORING which automatically turns off all plugins on the channel you're recording to.