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  #1891  
Old 12-12-2014, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Totally in favour of this.

We've been using our ProControl set-up since 1999, which arguably is a pretty darned good run for a tech product, so personally we're not in the "Avid are heartless, profiteering b@$#@&ds" camp.

In our particular case, we're about to finally upgrade our entire digitial audio system, having held off for years on the principle of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", and we've been looking at the available control surface options. Although there are undeniably some cool features out there, nothing in our opinion inspires the same kind of confidence that ProControl does in a purely physical sense. It's something sturdy that you can lean your elbows on and not flinch when the drummer jabs at the buttons right after doing a take. And, aside from an exciting episode involving a power supply and a lot of smoke, all four of our units have behaved themselves impeccably for 15 years.

In fact, our plan to go for a PT 10 + third-party thunderbolt hardware system rather than a PT 11 HDX w/Avid hardware system is based largely on the non-availability of any comparable, compatible control surfaces on the current market. There's fiddly, flimsy gear, and there's big-budget fancy gear, but not a whole lot in between.

As to the economic viability of Avid allocating resources to writing a driver patch for a 16-year-old product... my guess is that if they could, they likely would. But the reality is usually that development teams are already stressed enough trying to chase the bugs out of new product by the time it ships, without adding legacy support to their workload. No company can afford to be behind the cutting edge, so there's immense pressure to get new stuff out the door before the competition does. So it's not surprising that support is often dropped sooner than the user would like - it's just the economics of the market... we can't expect to have both cool new stuff AND perpetual support for our old stuff... something has to give. I'm not saying that it's a good thing, just that it's not surprising.

Having said that... every now and then, a company will come up with a product that is exceptional in some way, and if, sixteen years later, that product continues to be exceptional, arguably the smart thing for that company to do might be to make the most of the fact - it's something to be proud of!. To have created a product that is still in widespread use long after the rest of the field has faded speaks volumes, and conveys a kind of message that conventional marketing struggles to. Longevity is a rare and beautiful thing in digital audio technology for obvious reasons: the dramatic improvements in functionality and performance of new gear soon makes the previous generation obsolete. I would argue that ProControl is one of the exceptions to the above, perhaps for the following reasons:

- The job description for a DAW control surface hasn't changed that much in sixteen years, so ProControl is as functional today as it was in 1998, or at least would be, given compatible drivers. Offhand, I can't think of any aspect of it that could be said to be obsolete.

- In comparison to functionally comparable, currently shipping products, ProControl is built like a tank, with a metal case, "proper" buttons, alphanumeric displays that won't fade after a few years, and many user-serviceable parts.

- Visually, its form follows function, not fashion - it still looks professional, understated and classy.

- A whole bunch of people seem really keen to keep using it.

So it seems to me, naively, that it might well be worth considering restoring at least basic support for ProControl, on the grounds that the continuing presence of a ubiquitous, dependable and long-serving product - albeit an inherited one - makes a positive contribution to the brand image and reputation of the company that made it.

And of course it would make us happy too!
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  #1892  
Old 12-12-2014, 04:24 AM
DigitalMetal DigitalMetal is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Fantastic Post ! ^^^^^^
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  #1893  
Old 12-12-2014, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

@Propsman

Yes excellent post. Perhaps a re-post in a more visible thread...
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  #1894  
Old 12-12-2014, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Hehe thanks guys.

@bcwiz
Any suggestions as to a suitable thread to repost in? I'm a very new member and haven't really got a feel for the site yet...
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  #1895  
Old 12-12-2014, 12:30 PM
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Southsidemusic Southsidemusic is online now
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Quote:
Originally Posted by propsman View Post
Hehe thanks guys.

@bcwiz
Any suggestions as to a suitable thread to repost in? I'm a very new member and haven't really got a feel for the site yet...
Hi

Double posting is not allowed so either delete this post if you wanna change location or leave this where it is.

Since you are talking about Pro Control this really is the place for this post so I would suggest leave it here where it belongs even if it is a very good post

It doesn't matter if the post is here or anywhere else as most members use the "new posts" button anyway and if a Pro Control post end up in a PT11 section it will be moved so there's no reason to re-post anywhere else.
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  #1896  
Old 12-12-2014, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Ok cool, thanks, SSM
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  #1897  
Old 12-13-2014, 10:36 AM
soundeditor76 soundeditor76 is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

My control 24 is completely functional and in perfect condition. I have been using Pro Tools 10 now for awhile and everything is great. I have been really looking forward to some progress in terms of a driver, either third party or not. I just can't believe that it would be that difficult to get a driver going for this, considering the demand seems to be there.
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  #1898  
Old 12-13-2014, 11:28 AM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Avid claims a lot more than just a driver is required under the hood for Control 24 and Pro Control to work properly with Pro Tools 11 which was undoubtedly written for optimal performance using Eucon technology.

I can't imagine why they would mislead anybody about this but this "it only needs a driver" conspiracy theory lives on like so many other Avid conspiracy theories and the endless digidesign conspiracy theories that proceeded them.
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  #1899  
Old 12-13-2014, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Hehe I'm not sure if I'd call it a conspiracy theory exactly...

The reason why I think that it's a valid request is that unlike most cases of end-of-support, this one has not been caused by a fundamental change in the Protools system. For example:

- support for PCI core systems ended when computer manufacturers moved to the PCIe format.

- support for 32-bit plugins ended when the whole audio engine was rewritten for 64-bit architecture. People wanted to run bigger mixes, so ProTools needed access to more RAM than a 32-bit architecture allows, so a rewrite was necessary.

In other words, something happened that was beyond the control of Digidesign or Avid - either the available platform hardware changed, or the market demanded something that necessitated a major software rewrite.

In the case of legacy controller support, however, there is no such dependency. It is a relatively simple matter of passing small packets of control data via ethernet or midi, both of which are still as widely-used as ever. No actual audio is involved and new computers still have USB and ethernet. Of course, the controller driver code will need to be updated to run in a 64-bit environment, and tests run on the legacy hardware, all of which costs money, but I can't think of any fundamental impasse preventing Avid from continuing to support their legacy control protocols.

I think it's more a case of Avid having to make a decision as to where to allocate their finite resources, and opting to concentrate on new product. I freely admit that I have a vested interest in the matter, so I can't claim to be totally objective, but nonetheless, I think that this is one case where the good-will and brand-loyalty to be had by restoring support might be well worth the use of resources.

But of course I may be wrong... it's been known to happen before.
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  #1900  
Old 12-13-2014, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

ProTools 11 uses their first completely new audio engine since the '90s because Apple and mickeysoft are both pushing everything to 64 bit memory addressing. They also chose to update to a dual buffer system which performs far more efficiently than the old engine. For all intensive purposes it's a completely different program under the hood.

As I understand it, a driver talks to the hardware but then the audio engine needs to talk to the driver in order to make the program actually do something. A DAW software change can't get more fundamental than completely rewriting the audio engine!

The first generation of high-end Digidesign controllers were advertised as controlling the audio engine at a very low level so it makes sense to me there really is more to this than just a driver.
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