Master Bus...

[cocamycola89]

Yo folks,
This is a mixing question that i though i would run by u guys...
I mix allot of the heavier styles of music (mostly metal) and I have a habbit of keeping pretty much all track close to 0db on the faders... so when i have a good mix going the master bus (if at 0db) would be peaking (i don't normally limit or compress the master)... so i tend to just turn the master bus down 4-5 or even 6db to compensate. It makes for a pretty dynamic mix which i like but does it make a difference if i just turn down all the other tracks and leave the master as close to 0db as possible

[albee1952]

AFAIK, pulling the master down is fine, but I(personal choice) will pull all the audio tracks down, IF I still have clipping with the master down 5db or more. O make a quick group of all AUDIO tracks and grab a volume line after the end of the song and drag it down 3-4db(the ALL group makes all volumes drop the same amount, which preserves the mix).

[queenstonmusic]

But if you 'grab a volume line after the end of the song and drag it down 3-4db', won't all of the tracks with volume automation still bounce back to their original volume points, leaving the tracks without automation 3-4 db lower, while your automated tracks remain louder?

[cocamycola89]

I guess you will just have to do the ones with audio automation by hand? But i have another though accrues... when it comes time for mastering isn't it wise to have your mix as close to 0db as possible so that any extra input gain wont make your mix distorted? (i am talking about very very very slight distortion but still)

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by queenstonmusic

But if you 'grab a volume line after the end of the song and drag it down 3-4db', won't all of the tracks with volume automation still bounce back to their original volume points, leaving the tracks without automation 3-4 db lower, while your automated tracks remain louder?

No. All the automation is retained(select to view volume when you do this and you will see the entire volume envelope move). This simply lowers the level without affecting the automation moves. Regarding Mastering, DO NOT maximize your levels. Mastering engineers want the final mix to come to them no hotter than -6(with no master plugins used-that's their job). I only "rail" my mixes when I do my own mastering.

[DrFord]

Albee's pretty spot on (as usual), the thing I would be most concerned about would be clipping the input path of the master. The functionality of the master fader is to adjust the input volume of the master signal chain BEFORE plug ins and before the final output, unlike a standard fader which controls the volume of a track after the inserts. So You are in fact using the master fader exactly as it was designed to be used. The only rub tends to be when you get into mastering, and as albee said, real mastering engineers don't want to have to gain down your signal to start processing.

[cocamycola89]

Thanks for the help! Its good to hear that i´m doing something right I have been use to making my mixes kinda hot before mastering but as i said i like the final product to be pretty dynamic. I don´t know if you guys agree with me on this but i feel as though dynamics are slowly becoming a thing of the past in allot of the more popular music these days...

[DrFord]

My question for you, and this is without hearing your mixes, are your mixes actually dynamic? Just to mess with you a bit, by feeding your masterbus to the point of clipping on all faders is actually the opposit of dynamic. Dynamic mixes are ones that use all of the scales of volume, from "pianississimo" (ppp) to "fortissississimo." (FFF). The only music today that actually uses the entire scale of your total available volume is Jazz or Classical. This is not to say that your mixes are not dynamic, I just want to point out that 95% of todays "popular" music in most contemporary genres from Rock to Rap, tend to use only the top 10 db's in just about every mix. I haven't heard a rock track break down below -30db this century. Most of it these days has to do with the mastering process, however the mixer has allot of input. Pink Floyd has some pretty grand "piano" (p) sections in their songs, like in "Crazy Diamond" - and just for clarification I am not talking about the instrument piano.

Just some thoughts.

[cocamycola89]

My question for you, and this is without hearing your mixes, are your mixes actually dynamic? Just to mess with you a bit, by feeding your masterbus to the point of clipping on all faders is actually the opposit of dynamic.

That is a damn good point right there! Well i doubt i have used the whole scale of volume in any of the metal stuff but i have managed a "piano" in the break of one song (i think). It was the start of the solo and it was going up in 3 stages so instead of there being a -1db difference in the stages i really toned down the first 2 and on stage 3 i gave it everything i had for some of that brutal power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj611qyJ17k
its at about 2:52

[Murt]

Originally Posted by cocamycola89

Yo folks,
I have a habbit of keeping pretty much all track close to 0db on the faders... so when i have a good mix going the master bus (if at 0db) would be peaking (i don't normally limit or compress the master)... so i tend to just turn the master bus down 4-5 or even 6db to compensate.

FWIW I prefer to track at between -6 and -12. IMO This allows a lot more 'make -up' gain at mastering stage. As far as preserving dynamics I agree with Dr Ford re: 'feeding the master too hot'. Give it some room to breathe. Just because there's room left on the meter doesn't mean you have to max it out. Just my opinion.