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  #21  
Old 02-25-2015, 08:47 AM
RyanJ's Avatar
RyanJ RyanJ is offline
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristo Kotkas View Post
Fortunately many of these can be replaced, my favorite Waves plugin - RenBass in the other hand cannot, I really miss it :/
Have you tried Pro Subharmonic ? My irreplaceable plugins were C4, and RBass, until Pro Multiband and Pro Subharmonic came about, and were actually pretty awesome.

http://www.avid.com/US/products/prosubharmonic
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2015, 08:49 AM
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RyanJ RyanJ is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Voyles View Post
In no particular order, these are the plugs I'd like to have in my toolkit.

L2 Ultramaximizer
C6
H-EQ
1176
Bass Rider
H-Delay
CLA-2A
API 2500
Ren EQ
Ren Vox
TransX
SSL Buss Comp

I would like to get inPhase.

-Josh
Some of those I would love to see also, particularly API 2500, that's one that I just haven't found a replacement for yet. I'll keep searching, and we'll see what happens.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2015, 09:01 AM
Kristo Kotkas's Avatar
Kristo Kotkas Kristo Kotkas is offline
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Location: Tallinn, Estonia
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanJ View Post
Have you tried Pro Subharmonic ? My irreplaceable plugins were C4, and RBass, until Pro Multiband and Pro Subharmonic came about, and were actually pretty awesome.

http://www.avid.com/US/products/prosubharmonic
I'm good with MC2000 & AE400, regarding prosubh & renbass, they are completely different things, prosubh actually generates an octave below (at least this is how I hear it), renbass is a psycho acoustic thing, it's a Waves patented & developed trick to make us think we hear lower frequencies then we are. Waves actually sells this technology to consumer electronics manufacturers as well.
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VENUE FAQ & download links, useful
AVID VENUE ILok driver download
VENUE Plugin DSP usage

My AVID:
  • Room A > HD4Accel PCI-CustoMac / 192D / PTHD10 / 2 x Artist Mix / Artist Control
  • Room B > HD3Accel PCI-CustoMac / 192D / PTHD10 / 2 x Artist Mix
  • Big Live > VENUE Profile 48/24 + 2nd Snake card, IOx, FWx, HDx, PQ Rack, 8 x PQ Controllers
  • Small Live > S3L-32 + Mac Mini - two systems - combined one 64/32 FOH / Mon setup
  • On stage > Pro Tools on laptop with variety of M-Audio boxes
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2015, 02:11 PM
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Josh Voyles Josh Voyles is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Do you know if there is latency at the insert point on the Avid desks?

Basically, the Soundgrid system has a latency of .83ms plus whatever plugins you are using on top of that.

I remember seeing McDSP plugins mostly are less than 16 samples.

So...is it just <16 samples or 16 samples plus the insert point latency?

Also, do you know the latency from stage input to stage output?

Thanks for all the replies!

-Josh
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  #25  
Old 02-25-2015, 03:07 PM
Kristo Kotkas's Avatar
Kristo Kotkas Kristo Kotkas is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Voyles View Post
Do you know if there is latency at the insert point on the Avid desks?

Basically, the Soundgrid system has a latency of .83ms plus whatever plugins you are using on top of that.

I remember seeing McDSP plugins mostly are less than 16 samples.

So...is it just <16 samples or 16 samples plus the insert point latency?

Also, do you know the latency from stage input to stage output?

Thanks for all the replies!

-Josh
Avid is pretty good at informing how much and how the latency develops in the desk, from the manual:

Plug-In Latency and Processing Delay
Plug-In latency includes processing delay of the plug-in itself
plus routing delay, as follows:
• Instance delay: 2 samples per plug-in
• DSP routing delay: 3 samples
Viewing Plug-In Latency
Cumulative channel processing delay can be viewed by
right-clicking the Inserts area of the selected channel. The cumulative
delay includes latency reported by all inserted plug-ins, signal
routing and the known hardware insert delay, if applicable.
Individual plug-In processing delay can be seen by right-clicking
the plug-in icon in the rack. Use the number reported when calculating
latency for manual delay compensation.
Examples
If there is only one plug-in on a channel, the total delay will be the
amount of plug-in latency + 2 + 3. (2 samples for the one plug-in
instance, plus 3 samples for the DSP routing to the racks and
back.)
If you have two plug-ins on a channel or bus, the delay will be
plug-in #1 latency + 2 + plug-in #2 latency + 2 + 3. If plug-in #1
has 12 samples of latency, and plug-in #2 has 15, total latency
will be 34 samples (12 + 2 + 15 + 2 + 3).


Additionally Input to Output latency of the desk is reported to be:
S3 Round Trip Latency Console input to Console output 3.2ms
E3 Round Trip Latency Engine input to Engine output 2.2ms
E3 Round Trip Latency Engine input to Stage output 2.7ms
Stage 16 Round trip latency Stage input to Stage output 3.3ms

There is no mention if these numbers are with channel and output processing engaged or disengaged.


What comes to Waves, they seem not to publish much about latency, they keep talking about "near-zero" latency but it is a fact that each step adds latency.

I have a brief experience with a Soundgrid server and a Yamaha desk. From that I know in addition to the obvious converter and system latency of the desk the Waves server has something called the network latency that depends from how powerful your server is. So the entry level server we used had to have larger Network Latency setting set for a reliable connection. Sure it takes additional time to patch the signal from desk to the Waves card and back but I don't know these figures and if they are included in the number you quoted or not.
__________________
VENUE FAQ & download links, useful
AVID VENUE ILok driver download
VENUE Plugin DSP usage

My AVID:
  • Room A > HD4Accel PCI-CustoMac / 192D / PTHD10 / 2 x Artist Mix / Artist Control
  • Room B > HD3Accel PCI-CustoMac / 192D / PTHD10 / 2 x Artist Mix
  • Big Live > VENUE Profile 48/24 + 2nd Snake card, IOx, FWx, HDx, PQ Rack, 8 x PQ Controllers
  • Small Live > S3L-32 + Mac Mini - two systems - combined one 64/32 FOH / Mon setup
  • On stage > Pro Tools on laptop with variety of M-Audio boxes
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  #26  
Old 02-25-2015, 06:16 PM
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Josh Voyles Josh Voyles is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristo Kotkas View Post
What comes to Waves, they seem not to publish much about latency, they keep talking about "near-zero" latency but it is a fact that each step adds latency.

I have a brief experience with a Soundgrid server and a Yamaha desk. From that I know in addition to the obvious converter and system latency of the desk the Waves server has something called the network latency that depends from how powerful your server is. So the entry level server we used had to have larger Network Latency setting set for a reliable connection. Sure it takes additional time to patch the signal from desk to the Waves card and back but I don't know these figures and if they are included in the number you quoted or not.
Thanks for the details. Latency seems very reasonable. It's better than Yamaha but not quite as good as Digico. Over all, not a deal breaker and I like that over all plugin latency will likely be less than if I was using Waves. (I'll be running ears from FOH btw.)

I think Waves does a pretty good job of detailing their latency. (At least that I've seen.)

All the plugs have latency stats listed on the site and the Soundgrid latency is .83 ms (40 samples) for the Server Extreme and One.
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  #27  
Old 02-25-2015, 07:25 PM
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Mike496 Mike496 is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

I mixed ears and FOH with S3L-X on tour, worked out well. I hope we get more effects plugins like a high quality multi effects processor. I'm very interested in the picture Avid Live Sound posted on their Facebook this morning with S3L-X and the MOTU AVB interface. It would be really cool to share preamps but mix the ears off the MOTU.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2015, 01:07 AM
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Josh Voyles Josh Voyles is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike496 View Post
I mixed ears and FOH with S3L-X on tour, worked out well. I hope we get more effects plugins like a high quality multi effects processor. I'm very interested in the picture Avid Live Sound posted on their Facebook this morning with S3L-X and the MOTU AVB interface. It would be really cool to share preamps but mix the ears off the MOTU.

Thanks for sharing. It looks like AVB could really take off.

On another note, I had an interesting conversation with a friend today who's going to a school for music production.

He's saying the school actually doesn't recommended Waves plugins anymore. His teacher mentioned that because of the crazy pricing and road Waves is headed down with Soundgrid, they don't feel comfortable suggesting it to their students. I'm not going to name the school, but it's a big one.

His teacher does like Waves, but there is just really a lot of options on the market today.

I just thought that was interesting and it has me looking even more at the S3L (even future Avid live products) for future use.

Last edited by Josh Voyles; 02-26-2015 at 01:09 AM. Reason: additional info
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2015, 05:56 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Voyles View Post
Thanks for sharing. It looks like AVB could really take off.

On another note, I had an interesting conversation with a friend today who's going to a school for music production.

He's saying the school actually doesn't recommended Waves plugins anymore. His teacher mentioned that because of the crazy pricing and road Waves is headed down with Soundgrid, they don't feel comfortable suggesting it to their students. I'm not going to name the school, but it's a big one.

His teacher does like Waves, but there is just really a lot of options on the market today.

I just thought that was interesting and it has me looking even more at the S3L (even future Avid live products) for future use.
Unfortunately, Waves was really late to market with their Sound Grid stuff, and they did a horrible job of marketing it.

And they committed that most grievous of errors...they let their competition get a toe-hold...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2015, 10:01 AM
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
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Default Re: Waves Venue AAX DSP

Just for the record. the Facebook picture is showing an Motu AVB SWITCH, not an interface ;-) but I commented on that picture and asked about the compatibility to an Interface. No answer yet ;-)
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