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  #1  
Old 11-15-2013, 06:51 PM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Default OT - Modelers with real tubes

Hello my guitar friends and fellow 11R owners.

Quick off topic question. Anyone familiar with the Vox series of Tonelabs that use a real tube/valve in the amp sim pedals? I saw the first model on local Craigslist very cheap and picked it up. Wow. Impressed. Has me thinking.

What do the other/newer Tonelabs sound like?

Are there other sims with real tubes?

Do I need a Suprise Sound Lab Rock Block in my bag of toys?

http://www.surprisesoundlab.com/ssl-27_003.htm

That tube makes a difference. (Picking up some 60 cycle humm from somewhere - lamp, computer, lcd monitor? - so I need to figure that out as the unit is plugged into my Monster Power protection/cleaner unit.)

Thanks. Still love 11R but always hunting new tone.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2013, 07:51 AM
Tony-N Tony-N is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

I own the first Tonelab and also the LE version with a higher resolution and a floor pedal form factor.

They do sound good, though being a little much on the brighter side, but that’s fixable, ecpecially in post after recording.
They are really great to play on, one of the best modellers I have played actually, and the software is very responsive to both speed and dynamics, much like the 11R.

I have read that there are those who thinks that the newer versions of the Tonelabs aren’t as good as the old ones, but there are always those who will prefer older models for various reasons and I do prefer the older Tonelab over the newer LE, much because the great 4x12 Vox cab the original Tonelab had unfornately didn’t make it to the LE and also because of the desktop form factor over the floorpedal one.
Surprisingly, I didn’t really experience the upgrade to 24-bit to be that much of a difference, actually. I had hopes that I would get the same feel as when I went from the Roland GP-100 to the BOSS GT-6, that was a very clear difference, but it was also a big step in technology.

About that tube, I believe it’s there mostly for the look and vibe. I don’t really think it influences the tone and feel that much, if at all, it’s their Valve Reactor Technology that does most of that job alongside Korg’s algorithms. I know, it’s boring, but I very rarely buy into those tubes whenever I see them in units like these.
That said, it does glow nicely in the dark and adds a nice, warm mood, especially in dark, cold winter times like now, so it certainly has a function.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:57 PM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

You know I have read the tube does nothing and is a gimick.

I have read it is slight but it does help add to the tactical feel (that we all love with 11R). The tube is used between the preamp and the poweramp.

And I've read that the first version, I have, is the best because it was the only one that provide and adjustment knob for it's gain directly.

I wonder what the truth is? Is that tube just show or does it do something?

So you have the blue desktop model, DT, and the original blue LE model?

Listen, its all about finding tone. All good.
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:03 AM
bredo bredo is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

In the older desktop model the tube is placed in the power-amp section, with a gain control for power-amp distortion. It's not a pre-amp tube gain stage. And it is not a gimmick, it's working and adding to the "playing feel".

The tube type is what traditional is used in pre-amps (in traditional tube amps). But as said, here used in the tube power-amp section.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2013, 05:08 PM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

Thank you for your insights. Is that true for current and later models as well? I may pick up some more Tonelabs as the prices drop due to folks being bored with old tech!
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2013, 05:41 AM
Tony-N Tony-N is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

Quote:
Originally Posted by bredo View Post
And it is not a gimmick, it's working and adding to the "playing feel".
How do you know that? Have you played one without the tube?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bredo View Post
The tube type is what traditional is used in pre-amps (in traditional tube amps). But as said, here used in the tube power-amp section.
Excactly, and that's where I'm not really buying it.

We have an ampguru here in Sweden, Tommy Folkesson, who once put apart one of those ART preamps that was so popular in the 90's, because he couldn't figure out how that preamp tube could have anything to do with the "tube warmth" everyone was talking about. What he found was that the tube really didn't do anything and that there was a filter, before or after the tube, that added a boost in the lower frequencies.

No, for me, those preamp tubes that are supposed to work and give the same sound as poweramp tubes, are really just marketing and I could of course be wrong. But I'm fine with that, I don't care what juice my sound comes from, analog, digital or a big pile of dirt, I do agree, it's all good and as long as it does it for you, go with it if it makes your day better, I definitely would. :)
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2013, 11:13 AM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

Very interesting discussion.

If indeed the tube does nothing, and I am open to that consideration, how from a legal or ethical standpoint could Vox say in marketing claims that the Tonelabs features a "Powerful Valve Reactor circuit features a real 12AX7 vacuum tube for true-tube tone."? One would think in this litigous world we live in someone would drum up a class-action suit to claim fraud.

So you could read that as the circuit produces the tone and just happens to have a tube as part of the circuit (for show?). But written as-is it seems clear to me they are making the claim the tube helps (however large or little) with the tone.

Reading further, they make no bones about the tube making a real contribution. I quote...

Tube-driven Valve Reactor circuitry
The ToneLab EX carries on the most important benefit of the Valvetronix line: true-tube sound produced by a real 12AX7 triode vacuum tube. VOX created the Valve Reactor to satisfy our belief that the sonic tonal character of tubes can be obtained only by using real vacuum tubes. This unique VOX addition draws a clear distinction between the ToneLab EX and the modeling products from other manufacturers, and generates an overwhelmingly powerful sound unobtainable from other multi-effect units.

Just having received my Tonelab DT, as just starting to play with it, not being an amp or tone expert of any kind, but as someone with 7 hardware amp/effects sims and 10 or so soft sims, what I can say is "I think" I do hear a subtle contribution by the tube and pretty sure it is adding in a very pleasant way - like our 11R - a realism to the tactical feel and response as compared to other hardware and software amp/cabinet sims.

LOL. While I am here, and I think thread is OT so should probably conclude soon, I have also add a Motu ZBox to my gear and it too makes a subtle but real and nice difference in tone. Lastly, if you have not tried the S-Gear amp sim, you really should. It is terrific.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2013, 11:55 AM
bredo bredo is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

Try to pull out the tube. If it's in the power-amp circuit, you should get no sound.
In the old desktop it is in the circuit, adding to the feel when playing. But I have not said it sounds good (or bad). I haven't played my since I got my two Eleven Racks (4 years), except for some clean stereo sound.

Next time I'm in my studio, I will play through it. If for nothing else, to remind me how it sounds. Maybe I'll get dissapointed

For the new ones, I don't know.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:53 AM
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rob wots rob wots is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

i used a tonelab SE from 2005 right up until i got my 11R. i never bought any of the later tonelabs because even though they had some nice extra features they didn't sound as good to me, though that's with my guitar and the way i play etc
pros and cons, i'd say it does clean better than gain and single notes better than chords. i could feel and hear a lag, a kind of morhp on chord changes when using complex sounds
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:27 PM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Default Re: OT - Modelers with real tubes

I have many hours with my used Vox ToneLab DT (Desktop) and I really enjoy it as an option when recording. Glad I picked it up for $35. Steal.
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