Mixing for movie theaters vs. home theaters

[RadioFilter]

Hello all! I have a few questions regarding movie theater mixing. I have been working for five years mixing animated shows in stereo and/or surround for home theater and broadcast. Recently my company has taken up the challenge of theatrical releases, but I feel quite unprepared since we have no mixing stage and management is very reluctant to even rent a movie theater for testing purposes. Despite these (rather large) obstacles I'm still striving for a decent quality show. So, here goes...

1) What audio delivery format does a typical movie theater (i.e. Rave Motion Pictures) use for all-digital movies? I know most theaters don't use AC-3 files, so what happens to my 8-channel DA-88 tape once I send it to an authoring house? I've been asking them directly, but so far no answers. It makes me question their professionalism.

2) I remember some mixers mention on this forum that they mix up to -4dBFS instead of 0dBFS. I've done a few searches and can't seem to find the reason. Is it just to leave headroom for home theater downmixing?

3) Dialog in the surrounds... I don't do this usually, but the movie theater environment is so much bigger than what I'm used to. Should I send a small amount to the L/R/Ls/Rs channels? Should I lighten up on any dialog reverb to maintain intelligibilty?

4) Are there any time delay issues I can anticipate with speakers that far apart? Or, am I at the mercy of whoever calibrated the theater?

5) Our SFX come to us as a stereo stem. When I'm panning hard SFX (fly-by swooshes, etc) it seems like I should not pan anything 100% to the surrounds or to either side. I've begun using the divirgence controls to keep my panning away from the walls, so to speak, still audible on the far side of the theater. How important is this?

I appreciate any and all help in this. I'm not asking anyone to give out their hard-earned insider tips or tricks unless you're willing. Thanks!

[Jonathan Wales]

Hi Radio,

Wow! well that pretty much covers a bunch of stuff.


Firstly and most importantly, theatrical release prints of movies rely on licenses from Dolby, DTS, and sometimes SDDS for the soundtracks to get onto the prints. In some rare cases, a basic analog optical track mix could end up being the only one on a print, and there are ways to circumvent the Dolby license in this case (eg use Ultrastereo), but no real movie will ever be done this way as theaters are standardized on Dolby Digital and DTS for the most part.

That guarantees a certain amount of standardization between theaters. It is also intended to guarantee a high level of standardization between dub stages and theaters. Consequentially, there is no mechanism for a theatrical mix to end up on a movie without a "printmaster" taking place. This involves printing the soundtrack of the movie to the Dolby MO disk, and is only capable of being done in a Dolby certified dub stage. A Dolby representative must also be present during this process.

The specs that Dolby demands for dub stages are relatively rigorous and extend to include the nature of the room itself, the nature of the speaker systems, EQ's, recorder technology, and monitoring capabilities.

Although it is possible to mix a movie in a non-Dolby room, and then take it to a Dolby room for final printmastering, the problem with this would tend to be that unless your room is set up exactly like a professional dub stage, then the chances are enormous that the mix would not sound the same, and you would end up wanting to re-do it in the Dolby room. (Hence the point of doing these mixes in dub stages in the first place)

Trust me on this - one thing I have found to be true in all my experience: If you try to mix in a room that does not sound like a real dub stage, then it really doesn't matter how much experience you have, it will be very difficult to end up with something sounding like a movie. (been there, done that, it sucked and I remixed it.......)


So that is that part, and the key bullet points are these:

Speakers behind screen, conforming to Dolby spec (infinite baffle wall, perf screen, JBL's, etc)

Full EQ on all speakers in the room

Surround placement has to make sense

Mix position relative to screen has to be correct

Projection must be capable of achieving accurate sync

etc.etc.etc



I will let others deal with your other questions if they so desire.......


Good Luck,

[minister]

2) I remember some mixers mention on this forum that they mix up to -4dBFS instead of 0dBFS. I've done a few searches and can't seem to find the reason. Is it just to leave headroom for home theater downmixing?

i'll take another...read dr. sound's room calibration thread stickied to the top of this forum. one conclusion from that is...-20=0VU=85SPL means -4dBFS is 101 SPL!! that's LOUD! technically you can go to -.03dBFS with explosions, gunshots, music etc. but in a calibrated room, you know how loud it is by ear.

also, your 5.1 -- if it is DOLBY -- will have a concurrent LtRt made via the DMU (for the SR optical)-- though there is a container (essentially a multiband compressor) before the M.O.D. -- and you will have issues (or clashes) with downmixing the 2 from the 6 if your levels are really hot. and this is the time where you can have steering issues; you suddenly find that in one scene, on the LtRt, the dialogue is being pulled a little to the right. you have to adjust for this on the stage.

yeah, biggest problem with room translation is not low end, but RT60. ...and size of the speaker spread.

you are at the mercy of the theater's playback system.

[RadioFilter]

Thanks for the responses! I feel a bit sheepish asking such large questions, as if I'm hoping to gain years of experience in a few paragraphs. It's not going to happen, but every little bit helps.

I feel I'm completely out of my league on this. My mix room is anything but a mix stage... it's a regular 12x14 office with a lot of foam on the walls and a pretty good home theater system. Yuck. Now I'm being asked to sail with the big boys from USS DubStage.

Again, thanks for your response!

[dr sound]

Radio,
You have gotten some very good responses to your questions.

I feel I'm completely out of my league on this. My mix room is anything but a mix stage... it's a regular 12x14 office with a lot of foam on the walls and a pretty good home theater system. Yuck. Now I'm being asked to sail with the big boys from USS DubStage.

Why don't you visit the USS Dubstage here:
www.thedubstage.com
Give me a call and we can talk about your mix.

[bigbadhenchman]

If you have no experience mixing production dialogue, then that will be your biggest hurdle. Everything else pales pretty much in comparison.

[jimlongo]

Even with experience I find that's the hardest thing . . . got any secrets to share?

[bigbadhenchman]

Even with experience I find that's the hardest thing . . . got any secrets to share?

Get a Cesar DNS1000 or DNS2000.
Get Eqium and Firium.
Eqium for filtering and Firium to help match ADR.

[Craig F]

add this book for room setup:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/024...96138?n=283155

[martian]

the cedars are great!! - is it the 2000 that allows u to have seperate settings for left and right ? 2 passes in 1 pass?!!!

For dealing with production dialog you need to get good at finding tone to fill the gaps as well - Looping backwards and forwards - hours of fun!