Does hardware insert MUST be same I/O ?

[nedd]

I have standard Digidesign 192 i/o and also Presonus digimax FS via ADAT as additional 8 i/o's.

I use 192's all 8 analogue OUTPUTS to feed summing mixer.
I also use 8 analogue neutrik combo INPUTS of Presonus for my instruments.

Now if I want to use other signal processors as a inserts, I can't really INSERT them on the same in/out of the same hardware interface, so I can't use hardware delay compensation.

Does anyone has maybe a solution/trick how to send from Presonus via ADAT-go to the processing unit-return to the Pro Tools via 192 and be able to compensate it?

[albee1952]

While an insert needs to be the same number I/O, you can use any input and output by busing out and recording to a new track. Then you can use the old track as a timing reference for aligning the new audio(which will now be a little late due to the latency of conversion from digital to analog and back to digital).

[StudioRhythm]

You need to make a change in your hardware setup -- hardware inserts need to be the same number in and out, but you can assign each number to any input of any type, in whatever order you want. So in this case you'd want your analog inputs 1-8 on the 192 to be hardware setup inputs 1-8, but the outputs from your digimax should be set as outputs 1-8 (rather than the 192s outputs as would be default.) Then use the same concept for ins/outs 9-16, and it'll all work fine, although you'll need to redo your IO setup as well to reflect those changes.

It's a bit of a trick, and a little messy logically, but it's the only way to do this as far as I know.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by StudioRhythm

You need to make a change in your hardware setup -- hardware inserts need to be the same number in and out, but you can assign each number to any input of any type, in whatever order you want. So in this case you'd want your analog inputs 1-8 on the 192 to be hardware setup inputs 1-8, but the outputs from your digimax should be set as outputs 1-8 (rather than the 192s outputs as would be default.) Then use the same concept for ins/outs 9-16, and it'll all work fine, although you'll need to redo your IO setup as well to reflect those changes.

It's a bit of a trick, and a little messy logically, but it's the only way to do this as far as I know.

Although this will work, using different interfaces for the inputs and outputs will effect the delay compensation calculations and therefore any hardware inserts won't be correctly compensated. It might not be very much and ok on some parts, but wouldn't be ok on rhythm parts.

Although you can tweak the H/W insert delay from the i/o page you can't have separate amounts for input and output, as this is only for tweaking non digidesign interfaces.

Only real option is another digidesign interface

Chris

[nedd]

Originally Posted by crizdee

Although this will work, using different interfaces for the inputs and outputs will effect the delay compensation calculations and therefore any hardware inserts won't be correctly compensated. It might not be very much and ok on some parts, but wouldn't be ok on rhythm parts.

Although you can tweak the H/W insert delay from the i/o page you can't have separate amounts for input and output, as this is only for tweaking non digidesign interfaces.

Only real option is another digidesign interface

Chris

thank you guys,

Another interface is not affordable right now (I am even trying to sell one Accel card), with this two I have enough ins/outs, it is matter of preferences.
The idea of StudioRhythm is interesting. As long as Pro Tools I/O set up sees it as an insert, can I not calculate delays and just leave it on all the time? I have few processors that will be mostly used as inserts, and if any "new" one come, procedure would be same: calculate, write it down, I/O...

I'll give it a go...and let you know


Nenad

[StudioRhythm]

Yes, you just need to set the delays manually. While it's true that you can't set separate input and output delays, that's not what's so important for most uses -- the main thing is the combined delay, which is what you are able to enter manually. As long as you're careful and don't split stereo pairs, close drum mics, or similar things between the two sets of converters, you shouldn't have any real-world issues with a slight difference there. For example, the difference between my 192 converters, my Mytek 8x192 and my Lavry Blue are all in the neighborhood of just a few samples different, around 20 at the most if I remember correctly, and that's a completely insignificant difference as far as rhythmic timing is concerned (but obviously quite significant if you're delaying one side of a stereo pair or a duplicated signal by that amount....)

When you set these delays, note that you'll have to set a different value for each sample rate to correctly compensate; I have a default IO setup for each sample rate that incorporates this. I'd set it up with a null test rather than trying to calculate it.

[Howardk]

I really wish there was an automateable bypass for the hardware insert. . . or at least a manual bypass. Am I the only one?

[StudioRhythm]

Yes, a bypass would be great, but I can imagine it being difficult to implement.

I don't use a ton of hardware inserts typically, but when I do and want to get a bypass I just use a duplicate track and mute some of the audio. In fact, come to think of it, it's rare that I even bypass plugins in the mix, it seems quicker and more straightforward to just duplicate the track and mute audio. That also makes it easier to see what happens in the mix after the fact, and it's easier to change than editing bypass automation, at least for me.

[BaileyBass]

Originally Posted by Howardk

. . or at least a manual bypass. Am I the only one?

I could certainly use the automated bypass. The only manual bypass that i know is control+Command/click which deactivates the insert while allowing audio to pass. Not really usable in realtime as it usually makes a click. but it is good for a/b'ing. SB