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  #1  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:44 PM
c.evans c.evans is offline
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Default WUP sucks!!

WUP is a total load of crap! I buy these Waves products, which are excellent, and then I have to pay to keep using the "same" products with newer versions of software.

Waves is the only company imposing this ridiculous fee to simply keep using the products that we have already paid handsomely for. I hate this. This is stuck in my craw.

Thank goodness I don't have to pay a fee to keep using my desk chair. It just sits there and does the job is designed to do no matter the changing furniture around it.

I will be selling my waves plugs soon and working my way into a product that doesn't stick you with stupid, fees that give you no reward. Oh yeah, H-comp and H-delay two years ago. So worth the $500 bucks in WUP!

Any good plugin alternative suggestions?

Venting,

Chad
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:16 PM
danander11 danander11 is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.evans View Post
WUP is a total load of crap! I buy these Waves products, which are excellent, and then I have to pay to keep using the "same" products with newer versions of software.

Waves is the only company imposing this ridiculous fee to simply keep using the products that we have already paid handsomely for. I hate this. This is stuck in my craw.

Thank goodness I don't have to pay a fee to keep using my desk chair. It just sits there and does the job is designed to do no matter the changing furniture around it.

I will be selling my waves plugs soon and working my way into a product that doesn't stick you with stupid, fees that give you no reward. Oh yeah, H-comp and H-delay two years ago. So worth the $500 bucks in WUP!

Any good plugin alternative suggestions?

Venting,

Chad
When you buy plugs and use them there is no requirement to update so you can continue using them.. therefore no one is "forcing" you to buy into WUP. They will continue to work as they always have.

However, as technology moves forward, OS'es, DAW's, etc.. all change.. sometimes requiring you to update.... Even then I seem to recall that Waves released a fix for V6 so that it would work with PT8, therefore not requiring WUP to allow you to move ahead with your DAW. Sometimes however, you have to pay to move ahead, just as you do with everything else. (How often do you update your computer?, and what does that cost?).

I have been with Waves for a few years now and have Mercury.. so the max WUP I would pay would be $200 a year... However, WUP can be bought from resellers for less.

Waves does indeed make good stuff.. hence the price that folks pay. If you choose to move elsewhere, I think you'll find that any other 'premium' plug out there costs as well, although not nearly as much as Waves can cost sometimes. Take McDSP. They make great stuff, but even they have charged for this latest update. My current version work just fine and I may continue on with them, but if I see a benefit to what I do in updating, I will gladly pay the price because I will make it back by saving myself time and energy.. making me more productive or increasing the value of my finished product.

For me, Waves and WUP have been a bargain.

Ymmv.

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  #3  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:20 PM
tghrs tghrs is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Got to agree there. The time and effort it takes to ensure that internal plug coding is compatible with all the different DAWs and setups is worth paying for the update in tech. And yes Waves does try its best to cap update pricing.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:25 PM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

If you really think about it, you end up paying the same type of fees in different forms with other software companies. It's not as obvious, but it ends up working out the same way. When you were on Protools 7.3.1, and you wanted to use Mac OS Leopard, you had to pay $50 to use PT 7.4. Now, if you were on 7.4 or 8, and you want to upgrade your Mac to further versions of Snow Leopard, and later OS Lion, you'll need to pay to upgrade to Protools 9.

The same principle works out with most other companies, such as Native Instruments, etc.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2010, 01:54 AM
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TOM@METRO TOM@METRO is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

I pay for Waves with about 3 hours a year in studio time. I'd rather it was free but I can live with 3 hours a year.
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:27 AM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Waves is the not the only company that does this. Microsoft and Oracle do this with their enterprise solutions all the time. The last time I checked, Oracle charges exactly 22% of the license fee annually for maintenance and upgrades. Microsoft recently announced to one of my clients that they will begin to charge $400,000 a year to continue support for Windows Server 2000 and will double that amount each year after that.

WUP is costly, Waves plugin bundles are by no means cheap either, but if you want to use good tools, they will cost. I can't afford Waves Mercury so I don't use it. Always research the products and costs before buying.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:34 AM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
If you really think about it, you end up paying the same type of fees in different forms with other software companies. It's not as obvious, but it ends up working out the same way. When you were on Protools 7.3.1, and you wanted to use Mac OS Leopard, you had to pay $50 to use PT 7.4. Now, if you were on 7.4 or 8, and you want to upgrade your Mac to further versions of Snow Leopard, and later OS Lion, you'll need to pay to upgrade to Protools 9.

The same principle works out with most other companies, such as Native Instruments, etc.
There is a big difference here, though...

When you buy a new Pro Tools upgrade... you get ADC, Elastic Audio, etc... what do you get from WUP other than the satisfaction that it's going to be compatible with these new versions of DAWs that charge you (mostly) for new features and not just keeping up with the times?

Plenty of other plugin companies that don't charge just for compatibility sake. Play 2.0 was an immense step up from 1.25 and that was free. Slate Digital is sending early adopters of VCC free iLoks. Has anyone ever payed for an update of the Massey plugs?

My point is... what exactly are you paying for with Waves that really makes the WUP worth it? I've found plenty of other plugins that do the same job, if not better, and don't charge you every year just to maintain their compatibility with the latest DAWs and OSs.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:13 PM
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paul_g paul_g is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
There is a big difference here, though...

When you buy a new Pro Tools upgrade... you get ADC, Elastic Audio, etc... what do you get from WUP other than the satisfaction that it's going to be compatible with these new versions of DAWs that charge you (mostly) for new features and not just keeping up with the times?

Plenty of other plugin companies that don't charge just for compatibility sake. Play 2.0 was an immense step up from 1.25 and that was free. Slate Digital is sending early adopters of VCC free iLoks. Has anyone ever payed for an update of the Massey plugs?

My point is... what exactly are you paying for with Waves that really makes the WUP worth it? I've found plenty of other plugins that do the same job, if not better, and don't charge you every year just to maintain their compatibility with the latest DAWs and OSs.
True, I think the point being made is, it's one thing when you go Version 6 to Version 7, etc.. Yes, you should pay for those "upgrades". But they are requiring a service fee of $200 a year for Customer Service Updates. Which I totally disagree with. It would be equivelent to Avid charging for CS updates to Pro Tools.

So I'm on the bandwagon that if they have updates that enhances or resolves issues, they should allow customers to get those updates for free. Let's face it, Waves isn't cheap... They should offer CS updates for free.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:22 PM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_g View Post
True, I think the point being made is, it's one thing when you go Version 6 to Version 7, etc.. Yes, you should pay for those "upgrades". But they are requiring a service fee of $200 a year for Customer Service Updates. Which I totally disagree with. It would be equivelent to Avid charging for CS updates to Pro Tools.

So I'm on the bandwagon that if they have updates that enhances or resolves issues, they should allow customers to get those updates for free. Let's face it, Waves isn't cheap... They should offer CS updates for free.
That's all I'm sayin...

Nevermind the fact that you can't buy their plugs on an individual basis, you seem to have to "subscribe" to their plugin service, rather than just buy what piece of software you want. Then iZotope releases plugs with all of those features combined into one plug for a price no one can beat (IMO), and they only charge for major upgrades that always include new features.

I guess Waves just ain't for me.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:57 PM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: WUP sucks!!

In many cases, you're not just paying for updates and maintainence. In a lot of cases, they're including new plugs. In some cases, it's new ones that weren't available, like H-Delay and H-Comp. And in others, it's stuff that used to be separate purchases, like adding the Puigtec to Platinum and above, or V-Comp to Diamond and above.

The other thing is- how long does it take some companies to update their plugs? Look at how long people were having problems with Play, for example. Or how long Native Instruments was not working with Leopard. In some cases it was years. What good is free maintainence if they take forever to get around to it, and you can't use it in the meantime.

Waves, on the other hand, is usually the first one out of the gate to be compatible with new DAW versions and OS's, etc. I'd rather pay and be able to use it, then get it for free and wait forever.
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