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  #1  
Old 08-12-2008, 03:50 AM
Premo Premo is offline
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Default Help Slaving Logic Studio to Pro Tools

I'm probably just being a retard but I can't get Pro Tools to be the master and send MTC or Beat Clock to trigger Logic Studio. Other way around is no problemo! Pro Tools loves slaving and being Logic's little buddy. Receives MMC and the whole nine.

But can someone give me a step by step on mainly the software settings for Logic to receive either MTC or BEat Clock while using a standard midi cable. (Side question: Is beat clock more commonly used for musicians, why? MTC is more accurate right but would one of them loop audio while the other doesn't? )

I read through the Logic Studio guide regarding sync and it didn't work - but I'm green with LS8.
My goal is to do everything in Pro Tools but use Logic's VI's and record those into Pro Tools. Maybe there is a better way than slaving Logic to Pro Tools with MTC?

I tried having PT send MTC, I can see Logic can receive Midi fine from PT, but for some reason the transport never rolls in Logic. Loopback test with MTC out and back into Pro Tools with midi cable and PT session setup window shows incoming timecode! so PT is fine, what settings are super muy important to Logic for it to be slaved correctly? Does it need a leather mask and a whip or something? Thanks!

PT HD 7.4.2, Mac Pro 2.66ghz, 10.5.4, Midi IO, C|24, Logic Studio 8
Mac Book 2.4ghz, 10.5.4, FW410, M-Powered 7.4.2, Axiom49
I trying to send MTC out PT on Mac Book w/ FW410 into Axiom49 that is connected to Mac Pro running Logic. In Logic I can see the midi notes registering from Pro Tools but no sync at all.
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2008, 07:27 AM
digilogin digilogin is offline
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Default sync

hello,

i would like to know about this also. i have been trying to find out exactly how to slave logic to pro tools [or vice versa], on the same computer via the iac bus.
if you know how, could you please post a detailed step-by-step?
i am using pro tools hd, version 7.31 and logic pro version 8.02, on an intel mac 3ghz.
i have tried a number of suggestions but none seem to work.

is it necessary to have logic use the apple core audio only, or can there be a different interface and driver. obviously i am using dae and digi 192 for pro tools.

any information much appreciated. thanks.


digilom
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2008, 09:36 AM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Here's a quick step by step for Logic 8.x and Pro Tools 7.4.x:

1. Open Audio MIDI Setup (either directly from the application located at MacHD>Applications>Utilities or through Pro Tools through the Setup>MIDI>MIDI Studio menu). Double click on the IAC Driver and check the box for 'Device is online' and make sure at least 1 bus is showing in the Ports list. The 'apply' button won't ever light up - this is normal. Close the IAC Driver window - it should now show up as 'active' (not greyed out) in the Audio MIDI Setup window.

2. In Pro Tools go to Setup>Session and change the Session Start to 1 hour (01:00:00:00) in the upper right. Verify the Time Code Rate you want to use (30 for audio only, 29.97 for NTSC video, etc.). Open the tab for 'Time Code Settings' and in the lower left, check the box for 'Using MTC'. Close the window.

3. In Pro Tools go to Setup>Peripherals and click on the Synchronization tab. Under MTC Reader and Generator select IAC Driver Bus 1 next to MTC Generator Port, then click OK.

4. In Logic, go to Settings>Sychronization, then click on the General tab. Next to Sync Mode, choose 'MTC'. No need to check 'Auto Enable External Sync'. In the Frame Rate drop down, choose the same frame rate that you have set in Pro Tools. Bar position (1 1 1 1) plays as SMPTE 01:00:00:00 is what you should see there. This assures that Bar 1 in Pro Tools, which is at 1 hour, is the same in Logic. If they are different, you may not get the expected sync results - for instance, if Pro Tools is set to 1 hour and Logic to 0 (zero) hours, you would press play in Pro Tools and have to wait 1 hour until Logic would start to sync. In that same window, click on the Audio tab and make sure that Audio Sync Mode is set to External/Free next to Core Audio. DAE/DTDM should be greyed out and is not applicable here.

5. You'll want to make sure that both of your audio interfaces for Logic and Pro Tools are synced to the same clock, so you should connect a digital out from your Digi HW to a digital in on your Logic hardware. You can use ADAT or SPDIF (RCA or Optical). Make sure your Pro Tools session and Logic session are set to the same sample rate - in Pro Tools this is set when you create the session. In Logic you can set this in File>Project Settings>Audio.

Lastly, make sure that the Sync button is showing in the Transport in Logic. You can either right or control click on the Play button and choose 'Customize Transport Bar', then check the option for Sync in the Modes and Functions list.

Once you have the Sync button in the transport, right or control-click on it and choose 'SMPTE Sync (MTC)'. You should now be able to switch back to Pro Tools, press play and see Logic sync.

It's always a good idea to give a bar or 2 before your audio/sequence actually starts to allow proper sync, otherwise you may have some glitches/hiccups at the beginning if your audio/sequence starts immediately.
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  #4  
Old 08-12-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digilogin View Post

is it necessary to have logic use the apple core audio only, or can there be a different interface and driver.
You can use any Core Audio device other than Digi HW (since it will be used exclusively by Pro Tools).

I use various M-Audio devices and connect an ADAT cable between the M-Audio interface and my Digi interface so I can record 8 digital inputs into Pro Tools from Logic.

Alternately you can use Logics' 'Export All Tracks as Audio Files' function and import them into Pro Tools.
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  #5  
Old 08-12-2008, 10:40 AM
Premo Premo is offline
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Digitechsupt, I was trying to get 2 different rigs to do this, to offset some of the processing to a different machine, but your solution works well. THANK YOU.

When using ADAT and recording in from Logic are you leaving Delay Comp off and are there timing issues to be aware of with midi over IAC bus and coming back? I'm using VI's in Pro Tools and Logic at same time. Anything I should be keeping in mind when working like this?


Secondly, just for future reference, is it possible to use DAE/Direct TDM in Logic while slaving it to Pro Tools using 2 computers? What's the easiest method that people use, MTC? I don't need a step by step, just trying to clear the fog in my head.

Thanks so much.
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  #6  
Old 08-12-2008, 12:12 PM
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If you want to slave 2 different rigs, just use the same setup, but instead of choosing an IAC bus, choose a MIDI port and channel. Everything else should be the same.

Quote:
When using ADAT and recording in from Logic are you leaving Delay Comp off
Yes - I always turn off delay comp when recording.

Quote:
are there timing issues to be aware of with midi over IAC bus and coming back?
No worse than what you get using a standard interface and, as far as I've seen, it's been quite good overall.

Quote:
Anything I should be keeping in mind when working like this?
Nothing that comes to mind right off the bat. Once this is set up, I rarely have seen any problems and the ones I *have* seen are rather random or unrelated. If I think of something, I'll let you know.

I'm in the process of doing an entire Pro Tools/Logic Guide and I'll go into a bit more depth there.

Quote:
Secondly, just for future reference, is it possible to use DAE/Direct TDM in Logic while slaving it to Pro Tools using 2 computers?
I'm not quite clear on what you're asking. If the system that has Logic installed ALSO has HD hardware then, yes, you could. If you're thinking you can activate DAE/DTDM on the Logic system with HD hardware in the other computer then, no, that won't work. DAE/DTDM is how Logic 'accesses' HD hardware/cards. Logic and the hardware must be on the same system.

MTC is typically the best/easiest/most reliable method for sync'ing any two systems, whether it's Logic, Pro Tools, Logic with DAE/DTDM, Digital Performer, a hardware sequencer, etc.

Hope that helps.
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  #7  
Old 08-12-2008, 12:47 PM
digilogin digilogin is offline
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Default attn. digitechsupt and thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
Here's a quick step by step for Logic 8.x and Pro Tools 7.4.x:

1. Open Audio MIDI Setup (either directly from the application located at MacHD>Applications>Utilities or through Pro Tools through the Setup>MIDI>MIDI Studio menu). Double click on the IAC Driver and check the box for 'Device is online' and make sure at least 1 bus is showing in the Ports list. The 'apply' button won't ever light up - this is normal. Close the IAC Driver window - it should now show up as 'active' (not greyed out) in the Audio MIDI Setup window.

2. In Pro Tools go to Setup>Session and change the Session Start to 1 hour (01:00:00:00) in the upper right. Verify the Time Code Rate you want to use (30 for audio only, 29.97 for NTSC video, etc.). Open the tab for 'Time Code Settings' and in the lower left, check the box for 'Using MTC'. Close the window.

3. In Pro Tools go to Setup>Peripherals and click on the Synchronization tab. Under MTC Reader and Generator select IAC Driver Bus 1 next to MTC Generator Port, then click OK.

4. In Logic, go to Settings>Sychronization, then click on the General tab. Next to Sync Mode, choose 'MTC'. No need to check 'Auto Enable External Sync'. In the Frame Rate drop down, choose the same frame rate that you have set in Pro Tools. Bar position (1 1 1 1) plays as SMPTE 01:00:00:00 is what you should see there. This assures that Bar 1 in Pro Tools, which is at 1 hour, is the same in Logic. If they are different, you may not get the expected sync results - for instance, if Pro Tools is set to 1 hour and Logic to 0 (zero) hours, you would press play in Pro Tools and have to wait 1 hour until Logic would start to sync. In that same window, click on the Audio tab and make sure that Audio Sync Mode is set to MTC Continuous next to Core Audio. DAE/DTDM should be greyed out and is not applicable here.

Lastly, make sure that the Sync button is showing in the Transport in Logic. You can either right or control click on the Play button and choose 'Customize Transport Bar', then check the option for Sync in the Modes and Functions list.

Once you have the Sync button in the transport, right or control-click on it and choose 'SMPTE Sync (MTC)'. You should now be able to switch back to Pro Tools, press play and see Logic sync.

It's always a good idea to give a bar or 2 before your audio/sequence actually starts to allow proper sync, otherwise you may have some glitches/hiccups at the beginning if your audio/sequence starts immediately.

hello,

well, i tried the step by step, and i believe it makes sense, but i did not work.

is it the fact that i am using pro tools 7.3.1? is this something that only works with version 7.4?

thanks.

digilom
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  #8  
Old 08-12-2008, 01:56 PM
docric docric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digilogin View Post
hello,
well, i tried the step by step, and i believe it makes sense, but i did not work.
is it the fact that i am using pro tools 7.3.1? is this something that only works with version 7.4?
thanks.
digilom
Hey digilom,
Here's an alternate "step-by-step" that I put together mostly based on Bashville's prior thread on this topic. I'm no genius, so there may be plenty of redundancy in my workflow, but it works well for slaving L8 to PT & vice versa. It differs from DTS' post in that it's slaving PT to L8 via MMC, apparently. L8 is slaved to PT via MTC, as described above.

Here goes:
1) Create project in either PT or Logic. Define Tempo, Key, Time Sig., and Arrangement, including song markers.

2) Create a Midi Type 0 file from this session and either IMPORT it into PT OR OPEN IT in L8 to create an identical session in the other DAW.


3) In LOGIC:
a) Make sure “Core Audio” (NOT DTDM or DAE) is selected under Prefences/Audio/Devices.
b) On the Mac , set the “Sound output” to “digital” (or whatever output is available other than Digi HW). This will send Logic's audio out to Pro Tools. You’ll need to physically connect this output to a pro tools available input (to bring L8 sounds into PT).
c) Create a new MIDI track, make sure “open Library “ is checked
d) assign (via Library) that track to an available midi OUTPUT PORT. This will be the port that PT is going to receive MMC from Logic on.
e) on the channel strip for this new midi track, click the reveal triangle next to it’s name. Then click on the “Icon”, which will reveal a palette of icons. Choose the tape deck icon (Bottom row, 3rd from left)
f) On the L8 Transport Bar, make sure the Sync icon is displayed and that MMC & SMPTE are checked.

4) In Pro Tools:
a) choose Setup/Peripherals/Synchronization.
b) Assign MTC Reader Port to midi port used in step 3d above.
c) Assign MTC Generator port to IAC Driver, IAC Bus 1
d) choose Setup/Peripherals/Machine Control.
e) Check “enable” under “Midi machine control remote (slave)” and set ID to “0”. This is allowing PT to receive MMC from Logic to start/stop PT.
f) Connect a midi cable from the 3d midi output to an available midi input.
g) On PT Transport, make sure “Trasnport = Pro Tools”
h) Choose Setup/Midi/input filter and make sure that Sys Ex messages are NOT being filtered (box should NOT be checked.)
i) in the PT session, create an audio ( I prefer this b/c I can print the L8 track to it when ready to mix) or Aux track(s) and assign it's inputs to be Logic's outputs.



Unfortunately, this ONLY allows for L8 tracks to be monitored within PT, but NOT vice versa. However, that's our current workflow here...
Also, like I said, this is adapted almost entirely from Bashville's great post from an earlier thread. I've got it working well, but it's still fairly new to me, and there's plenty about it that I'm still getting a handle on.

HTH (and isn't too confusing!)
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:08 PM
digilogin digilogin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docric View Post
Hey digilom,
Here's an alternate "step-by-step" that I put together mostly based on Bashville's prior thread on this topic. I'm no genius, so there may be plenty of redundancy in my workflow, but it works well for slaving L8 to PT & vice versa. It differs from DTS' post in that it's slaving PT to L8 via MMC, apparently. L8 is slaved to PT via MTC, as described above.


HTH (and isn't too confusing!)

hello,

thank you for posting that. i will keep it around for later use. however, it is kind of different and more complicated than simply having logic chase pro tools, which is really all i need it to do.

so i would still like to know if the digitechsupt method only works with version 7.4, or if i am simply overlooking something.

thanks again, i am sure your step-by-step will come in handy also.


digilom
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  #10  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Premo Premo is offline
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The IAC bus trick is awesome. I wish I would have known about this a long time ago. I always saw IAC in AMS but never really knew what it was for or how well it worked. Thanks everyone for the help!

digilogin - What exact OS version are you on?
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