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  #21  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:03 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by sunburst79 View Post
Looking at it from the FW driver/x64bit issue I would say that your not the only one thats not sure what PT needs....
sad but true...
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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It works great with the Venue. Venue uses embedded XP. The OS is locked out from changes and updates.
Shan, the DigiOS wouldn't be a solution either, as it would still have to take into account the myriad of possible hardware configurations that people may have. How do you write an OS that can account for the variety of video cards, motherboards, BIOS versions, etc. without making it another bloated pig?

Besides - you can already get a fully functional, stable, reliable system by following compatibility requirements and reading the extremely helpful user info provided by you and others when building a computer, yes?
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2009, 04:18 PM
Wango Wango is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Offering an integrated platform solution is not a bad idea.

The fact that the older systems mentioned in this thread are obsolete is not an indictment of that platform.

In terms of what an end user price might be, think about what you pay now.

For a PT LE 003 system now, you end up paying at least $3k, since you have to buy a comp.
Add to that peripherals, and the time and expense of getting it configured and running.
Then, in a year or so you have to upgrade and figure out why it's not working again.

An integrated system could be offered in addition to the current systems and satisfy a wider customer base.

It's clear to me that the only way to improve ease of setup and config is to lock down the hardware.
The problem is not that customers buy incompatible hardware.
The problem is that Digi has to rely on their customers to do this and it often does not go well.

We're not talking about buying a chainsaw and using the wrong oil/gas mixture.
We're talking about something much more complex where the number of variables are huge.
Those variables need to be eliminated or significantly reduced and relying on customers to do it is a bad idea.

If it were only a small handful of users, it'd be one thing but the problem is widespread.

That's the point of this thread.
It's about improving PT LE in terms of making it easier to setup and configure.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
Shan, the DigiOS wouldn't be a solution either, as it would still have to take into account the myriad of possible hardware configurations that people may have. How do you write an OS that can account for the variety of video cards, motherboards, BIOS versions, etc. without making it another bloated pig?
A DigiOS(or a stripped down DigiXP) would be a solution to the current bloat found in the standard general OS's by Microsoft/Apple of course, but then there's the drivers on the PC side for hardware as you mentioned. This is where you copy the Linux and Open Source approach. Use a software repository for only a handful of Digi written and/or Digi approved drivers. Access to the repository is done via the new "Check for Updates..." feature in PT 8. The structure is already setup and operating for PT updates. Find the Mac equivalent of the two ATI/NVIDIA graphics cards on PC, write or support those two drivers, and stick them in the DigiRepository. If someone wants to try bleeding edge stuff like me, they're there own. The DigiRepository can have a Digi approved drivers section and a User approved drivers section with approved drivers known to work from the bleeding edge builders on the DUC.

The Linux/Open Source model of using repositories for drivers etc keeps the bloat down considerably and is a model that works. It also makes sure that only the actual driver gets installed and nothing more. The problem with many of these driver setup apps is they install alot of other junk that runs in the background besides the driver.

Quote:
Besides - you can already get a fully functional, stable, reliable system by following compatibility requirements and reading the extremely helpful user info provided by you and others when building a computer, yes?
Most dont even seem to look in the PT Reference Guide for help never mind reading compatibility requirements. True on that statement though.

+1 billion for DigiOS and the DigiRepository.

Shane
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:52 PM
sunburst79 sunburst79 is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

The real answer to the hardware/driver issue would be to have a Digi branded and tested computer system for sale by Digi that was tested and qualified in house as a evolving project.

Build said unit around commonly available performance PC parts and make the parts list readily available for anybody wanting to duplicate as a DIY project. Maintain the build list as the parts change. Price it halfway in between 3Rivers and Sweetwater and offer it it with 3 year warrentee on parts (which the manufacturers are going to cover for you anyway) and a matching time frame of free tech support. While its not going to generate a ton of profit it should generate enough to cover the testing and the tech support.

By doing this in house and pricing it reasonably you should generate enough volume to cover the R&D costs and have a fully approved current spec for the DIYourselfer's to use. By keeping the profit low you can price it attractively sell a bunch and cover the development costs and hopefully save money with less calls to CSA on tech issues. Since the stuff is tested in house any general hardware/driver issues can be rolled into cs updates if warranted or fast tracked into the next beta cycle.

All of my hardware seems to play just fine with XP, XP Pro, Vista and Win7 in all varieties with the exception of.....Digidesign... who seemed to have allowed the world most popular platform to fall 2-4 years behind the the development curve. XP Pro x64 came out in 2005-4 years later FW drivers still are not working with 64 bit reliably.

The last Digi qualified boards are 2-3 years obsolete.....I just checked Newegg and of the boards using the Digi qualified 945, 955, P965 and 975X chipsets on the socket 775 platform the total available number of new desirable boards are 945= None, 955=None, P965=1 Gigabyte P965-DSR (currently out of stock and probably not coming back). 975X= None.

Out of 279 Socket 775 boards listed at Newegg exactly 12 have Digi qualified chipsets and once you throw out the the Micro ATX stuff with integrated graphics you have exactly one board that will work and its out of stock.....of the 267 remaining choices with the P35, X38, P45 and X48 chipsets none are approved. Support for the Qseries Core 2 quad now two years old? Nada.

i7/X58 has been avaliable for 5 months now......One chipset for an entire platform. One computer built in house around the ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution could qualify the platform for both HD5 PCIe and LE/MPowered.

Digi's support of the PC platform is a disgrace.

So hows the X58 stuff runnin for ya in Daly City?
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2009, 01:13 AM
music project music project is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

digi tech,

my computer is 100 % compatible with your reqierments + all of your troubleshooting and still protools 8 is not stable.

again, i love using protools. but i have to fight my way working thru a project.

http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=240919

< System >
Host Name: USER-63E038532C
User: USER-1
Workgroup: WORKGROUP
< Processor >
Model: 2x Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 270
Speed: 2.01GHz
Cores per Processor: 2 Unit(s)
Threads per Core: 1 Unit(s)
Type: Dual-Core
Internal Data Cache: 2x 64kB, Synchronous, Write-Back, 2-way,
Exclusive, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache: 2x 1MB, ECC, Synchronous, Write-Back, 16-way,
Exclusive, 64 byte line size
< System >
System: TYAN Computer Corp. S2895
Mainboard: Tyan Computer Corporation S2895
Bus(es): X-Bus PCI PCIe IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/
SMBus
Multi-Processor (MP) Support: 2 Processor(s)
Multi-Processor Advanced PIC (:Yes
NUMA Support: 2 Node(s)
System BIOS: Phoenix Technologies Ltd. 2004Q3
Total Memory: 2GB ECC DDR Registered
< Chipset >
Model: AMD Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport
Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed: 2x 1.00GHz (2.01GHz)
Total Memory: 1GB ECC DDR Registered
Memory Bus Speed: 2x 201MHz (402MHz)
< Chipset >
Model: AMD Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport
Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed: 2x 1.00GHz (2.01GHz)
Total Memory: 1GB ECC DDR Registered
Memory Bus Speed: 2x 201MHz (402MHz)
< Memory Module(s) >
Memory Module: Transcend Information TS64MDR72V4F3 512MB ECC
DDR Registered PC3200R DDR-200 (3.0-3-3-8 2-
11-0-0)
Memory Module: Transcend Information TS64MDR72V4F3 512MB ECC
DDR Registered PC3200R DDR-200 (3.0-3-3-8 2-
11-0-0)
Memory Module: Transcend Information TS64MDR72V4F3 512MB ECC
DDR Registered PC3200R DDR-200 (3.0-3-3-8 2-
11-0-0)
Memory Module: Transcend Information TS64MDR72V4F3 512MB ECC
DDR Registered PC3200R DDR-200 (3.0-3-3-8 2-
11-0-0)
< Video System >
Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM) (128MB DDR,
351MHz/2x501MHz, PCIe 1.00 x16, PS3.0,
VS3.0)
< Storage Devices >
HDS722516VLAT80 165GB (ATA100,:153GB
WDC WD3200YS-01PGB0 320GB (SAT:298GB (D:)
WDC WD800JD-60LSA0 80GB (SATA1:75GB (C:) (E:)
TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S182M (ATA:N/A (F:)
< Logical Storage Devices >
AUDIO (D:): 298GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD3200YS-01PGB0 320GB
(SATA150, 3.5", 7200rpm, NCQ, 16MB Cache)
SYSTEM (C:): 65GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD800JD-60LSA0 80GB
(SATA150, 8MB Cache)
DONOTUUSE (E:): 10GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD800JD-60LSA0 80GB
(SATA150, 8MB Cache)
CD-ROM/DVD (F:): N/A @ TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S182M (ATAPI, DVD+-
RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)
3.5" 1.44MB (A:): N/A
samples hd (G:): 59GB (NTFS)
audio hd (H:): 95GB (NTFS)
< Peripherals >
LPC Hub Controller 1: Tyan nForce4 ISA Bridge
LPC Legacy Controller 1: SMSC LPC v1
Audio Device: Tyan nForce4 AC'97 Audio Controller
Disk Controller: Tyan nForce4 Parallel ATA Controller
Disk Controller: Tyan nForce4 Serial ATA Controller
Disk Controller: Tyan nForce4 Serial ATA Controller
USB Controller 1: Tyan nForce4 USB Controller
USB Controller 2: Tyan nForce4 USB 2.0 Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 1: Tyan TSB43AB22 1394a-2000 OHCI PHY/Link-Layer
Controller
System SMBus Controller 1: nVidia MCP2+ SMBus 1
System SMBus Controller 2: nVidia MCP2+ SMBus 2
< Printers and Faxes >
Printer: HP LaserJet 1018 (600x600, USB)
< Network Services >
Network Adapter: NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller - Packet
Scheduler Miniport (Ethernet, 100Mbps)
< Power Management >
Mains (AC) Line Status: On-Line
< Operating System(s) >
Windows System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.01.2600
(Service Pack 3)
Platform Compliance: x86
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  #27  
Old 03-07-2009, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

All to true…
Still we persevere.
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2009, 09:53 AM
sunburst79 sunburst79 is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
All to true…
Still we persevere.
It's true! and some progress has been made.

Sometimes you feel like your trying to push start a tour bus. By your self. Uphill.
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  #29  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:12 PM
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Sam C Sam C is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

i used SAW for a long time. did not matter, literally, which computer. it simply was rock solid. however, PT is a much more user friendly software. i also still have, and sometimes use, Podium and Reaper. Again, any computer, of my four (some old, one modern) rock solid. i am not sure what these programs sacrifice, i really cannot tell, but they perform at a level PT does not.

i like PT. i am a late starter with it but for some reason the program really fits my personality (design wise and features). if it did not, i would drop it in a NYC minute for reasons i just stated!
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2009, 04:42 PM
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Shan Shan is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunburst79 View Post
The real answer to the hardware/driver issue would be to have a Digi branded and tested computer system for sale by Digi that was tested and qualified in house as a evolving project.

Build said unit around commonly available performance PC parts and make the parts list readily available for anybody wanting to duplicate as a DIY project. Maintain the build list as the parts change. Price it halfway in between 3Rivers and Sweetwater and offer it it with 3 year warrentee on parts (which the manufacturers are going to cover for you anyway) and a matching time frame of free tech support. While its not going to generate a ton of profit it should generate enough to cover the testing and the tech support.

By doing this in house and pricing it reasonably you should generate enough volume to cover the R&D costs and have a fully approved current spec for the DIYourselfer's to use. By keeping the profit low you can price it attractively sell a bunch and cover the development costs and hopefully save money with less calls to CSA on tech issues. Since the stuff is tested in house any general hardware/driver issues can be rolled into cs updates if warranted or fast tracked into the next beta cycle.

All of my hardware seems to play just fine with XP, XP Pro, Vista and Win7 in all varieties with the exception of.....Digidesign... who seemed to have allowed the world most popular platform to fall 2-4 years behind the the development curve. XP Pro x64 came out in 2005-4 years later FW drivers still are not working with 64 bit reliably.

The last Digi qualified boards are 2-3 years obsolete.....I just checked Newegg and of the boards using the Digi qualified 945, 955, P965 and 975X chipsets on the socket 775 platform the total available number of new desirable boards are 945= None, 955=None, P965=1 Gigabyte P965-DSR (currently out of stock and probably not coming back). 975X= None.

Out of 279 Socket 775 boards listed at Newegg exactly 12 have Digi qualified chipsets and once you throw out the the Micro ATX stuff with integrated graphics you have exactly one board that will work and its out of stock.....of the 267 remaining choices with the P35, X38, P45 and X48 chipsets none are approved. Support for the Qseries Core 2 quad now two years old? Nada.

i7/X58 has been avaliable for 5 months now......One chipset for an entire platform. One computer built in house around the ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution could qualify the platform for both HD5 PCIe and LE/MPowered.

Digi's support of the PC platform is a disgrace.

So hows the X58 stuff runnin for ya in Daly City?
...and testing the PC stuff in bootcamp on Macs inhouse doesnt count!!

Just adding one more to the list above.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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