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  #11  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:08 PM
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Shan Shan is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Weed View Post
Shane had the best idea, not Digidesign computers, but a Digidesign OS that would just be for running Pro Tools. He votes for a stripped down version of Linux. We could run a dual boot with Windows if we didn't have a dedicated audio computer. Even that I bet would be far too many headaches for Digidesign.

Cheers,
The main purpose of a DigiLinux OS is that the OS is locked out and frozen. Microsoft/Apple updates will no longer break PT. Real DAW development and advancement could then occur instead of wasting money and resources patching PT for an OS update that just broke it.

Digidesign already does this. The Venue is 100% rock solid. They cant afford to have that thing go down. It uses embedded XP. Since it's embedded XP, Apple/Microsoft cant break the software with updates or new versions. The OS is locked down.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #12  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by Wango View Post
Another option is to integrate a qualified computer into at least the LE products and market it as a single system. So, for example, the Digi 003 Factory would include the CPU, Memory, MB, FW, etc..

In other words, end consumers would have no choice of computer, it would be integrated into the system as a whole.

If the processing power were adequate, users could go through multiple software upgrades without necessarily upgrading the hardware.

The system could offer a firewire port (for external drives) and inputs for monitor, keyboard and mouse.

it would certainly give Digi complete control over hardware compatibility issues.
Unfortunately, in Digide$ign money, this would cost more than a current Mac. You're looking at $5000+ easy. It would also be obsolete and dated in 6 months.

Having said that, they have this already. It's called a Mac. The Mac is pretty much locked down as you described...and PT isnt running like it use to on the Mac these days.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #13  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by Wango View Post
A Digi OS would be more of a headache than a Digi comp.
It works great with the Venue. Venue uses embedded XP. The OS is locked out from changes and updates.

Quote:
With the OS, you have the same hardware compatibility issues to contend with.
You have not solved that problem, you've only shifted the burden from one Digi software (LE) to another (the Digi OS.)
The main problem isn't the hardware, it's the stuff running in the OS taking up CPU cycles that PT needs. As mentioned above by Digitech, it interferes with PT hence the errors. Their own OS wouldn't have the background junk running and taking up valuable real time CPU cycles needed for PT.

Quote:
A Digi comp removes hardware from the equation altogether.
And, you only have one hardware platform on which you need to test and qualify.
...and Digi would go out of business. A $500 computer converted to Digide$ign dollars would be $10,000 minimum.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #14  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by Craig F View Post
Can you say Diaxis or Opus or even Synclavier (sp?)
all dedicated but now defunct DAW/computer packages
...or Fairlight. Let's not forget the hardware multi track recorders by Roland/Korg etc which are computers with their own OS etc. I'll pass on those thank you. Do they still make those things?

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #15  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:40 PM
Craig F Craig F is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

But a Venue is a special beast:
no editing
no VIs
no video
48k only if I remember correctly
Live guys don't look at/for there rigs the way studio guys do
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2009, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
I won't necessarily argue about the 'sensitive' part - unstable, yes, because instability can be caused by many things, not all of them being the app itself.

The Pro Tools engine is based on TDM architecture, which is all real-time. It's sensitive because interruptions to real-time threads throw everything out of sync, and errors occur. Other apps aren't as sensitive to this as they are based on 'highest priority' threads and they're willing to make other compromises to avoid errors.

On Windows this is especially problematic (real-time threading) because there are SO many variables and much less rigorous driver testing on the part of manufacturers. Everything from the motherboard BIOS to the sound card or NIC drivers to the video card driver can all have an effect on real-time threads by interrupting them. I won't even get into the havoc caused by all the background apps that typical PC's have running.

...The easier solution is a little more time and attention on the part of the end user, as a properly configured system works quite well and is very stable....
Since a custom DigiLinux OS is unlikely, though it would be a solution to many problems above, you could issue a slip streamed version of XP Pro 64 just for Pro Tools. Strip out all the junk and have it set up to run only Pro Tools. Drivers and everything already installed and everything tweaked and pre optimized for Pro Tools only.

I have been doing this myself recently using nLite. I have the XP installer under 300MB and only 3G after install. If Digidesign is worried about issuing this or supporting it, a simple "how to" video could be created instead to show the user the exact procedure to slip stream XP for a custom DigiXP OS.

Another option for the custom DigiXP OS is to let us users create it and give us suggestions on how far we can strip it down without creating a problem for PT. We can then make it a sticky. I can strip this down next to nothing but, I don't know exactly what PT uses and doesn't use from the OS. That's my main problem with taking it further that I would need help with from Digi HQ. This custom DigiXP would solve many of the current error problems people are experiencing.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #17  
Old 03-05-2009, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig F View Post
But a Venue is a special beast:
no editing
no VIs
no video
48k only if I remember correctly
Live guys don't look at/for there rigs the way studio guys do
A custom DigiXP OS can currently be done is what I'm getting at. Install it and it will dual boot with whatever current OS you are using. I have my own custom DigiXP OS already and can attest it can be done. Get rid of the junk, and most of the problems that interfere with PT go. If I was more familiar with what exactly PT needs to operate, I could take it even further.

The ideal scene would be the OS kernel and PT only. Nothing more.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #18  
Old 03-06-2009, 12:15 AM
rqstudio rqstudio is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

I think you guys are talking about a product like the Tascam X-48, Nice box but I don't think Digi would go there.
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:03 AM
Banana Banana is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
The easier solution is a little more time and attention on the part of the end user, as a properly configured system works quite well and is very stable.
Tell that to all the users struggling with the record play/pause issue, and be prepared to get a [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]storm...
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2009, 12:57 PM
sunburst79 sunburst79 is offline
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Default Re: why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

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Originally Posted by Shan View Post
I don't know exactly what PT uses and doesn't use from the OS.
Shane
Looking at it from the FW driver/x64bit issue I would say that your not the only one thats not sure what PT needs....
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