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  #1  
Old 12-22-1999, 03:40 PM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

What to do, what to do? I have 5.0 on a 9600/300 which has served well with a Mix system. Now I really want to get away from my video tape deck and have scrub-able video in Pro Tools. The 9600 is not the fastest machine around, and I really don't want to harm my system's excellent performance.

Do I spend $8000++ for an AVoption (including 2nd SCSI card and more drives). Digi says it will not hurt system performance, but the currently available ABVB hardware is nearly obsolete. I've waited so long that I just can't wait any more for the AVoptionXL. (Gawd what will THAT cost?)

Do I get a Doremi type of disk-based video recorder and use my machine control? How well does this work?

Do I take a chance on a DC30 or a Fuse card? Neither of these is currently "blessed" by Digi for 5.0 I also have read a number of negative comments about them and performance-related problems.

I know only one thing. I can't deal with locking up to a video deck any more! What should I do?
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  #2  
Old 12-23-1999, 07:11 AM
Jeff Buikema Jeff Buikema is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

Just want you to know that I posted a similar question on the Tips & Tricks thread and David Korn posted another on the General thread.

Sorry I don't have any answers yet but, hopfully we'll get some advice on one of these soon.

Best of luck.

Jeff
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  #3  
Old 12-23-1999, 11:23 AM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

Thanks, Jeff. Maybe part of the problem is that very few folks have actually used an AVoption. Dealers don't seem to have it yet. I must make a decision soon, so as soon as my dealer gets one I'm gonna looksee. I hate it when all available solutions have important downsides.

Fuse/Miro cards are "cheap" and can supply high-enough resolution. But they rely on Quicktime, and so may require too much CPU time. Also they require digitizing in a different program, and conforming of the movie to proper video speed. This obviously takes extra time. Finally, I searched the archives here and have read numerous reports on both of them about stutters and missing frames and other less-than-wonderful performance issues.

Doremi V1 or Rorke VMod may be okay. They certainly don't demand any CPU time (except for the not-cheap machine control option). But I have heard that there is some lockup time whenever you begin to play. How much? I'm guessing between 1 and 4 seconds, but I don't know. Also, they are expensive. And I might have to add more disk space in order to get several long format shows on line. Also I wonder how well they stay in sync when scrubbing audio. Anyone here have experience with them?

There's the AVoption. Digi claims there is very little CPU demand from it. But it is "obsolete" hardware because Avid no longer sells it. I guess the scraps have to go somewhere! (Audio is once again a poor stepchild of video.) And it is remarkably expensive. I think it also should have its own SCSI subsystem. I wonder how much the PCI buss in my 9600 can really handle.

Finally, there's the AVoptionXL. It's gonna cost tons-o-cash and it isn't available yet. Therefore, its not in the race for me.

Considering all of this, maybe radio shows aren't so bad after all.
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Old 12-23-1999, 01:04 PM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

I hope to actually see/feel an AVoption on Monday! I'll let you know what I find out.

[This message has been edited by Richard Fairbanks (edited 12-23-99).]
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  #5  
Old 12-23-1999, 01:22 PM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

Thanks, trakbytes and vico. I really appreciate your answers since I am so not able to figure this all out.

Avoption=2 slots. Uhg, I'd completely overlooked that! The only way I can use it is to replace my 2940 with a 2 channel SCSI card, or get an expansion chassis. Bigger uhg.

While picture quality is not a critical issue for me, I have always striven to maintain the best presentation I can. Clients like it and so do I. Good resolution also helps when it's time to lip-sync a long shot. I do a majority of work on 22 minutes and longer material. Isn't there some sort of QT file size limit, like 2G? What kind of resolution can I maintain for 22 minutes within this limitation. Also, I've heard there is a problem with 5.0/QT4 and Miro. Should I assume this is only a temporary problem...that could be dangerous.

OTOH, vico, it is indeed encouraging to hear that you've used the DC30+ on a 7600/133 without problems! Do you mean that scrubbing was useably responsive on that system?

Oh yeah, how long does it take to conform a QT movie after digitizing it? And does that require extra disk space?
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  #6  
Old 12-23-1999, 04:37 PM
vico vico is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

postman,

we use a resolution of 320x240, color set to millions, maybe this sound as too low bandwith/resolution but indeed is very usable, we use it to sync film sound (fx/dialogs, etc) and it is ok, as for the limit size i don't really know, our QT movies are about 1 MB in size. I am not aware of any problem with QT4.0x and the miro dc30+, also we always use the in-built data compression in the miro card.

As far as my experience goes you have to be aware of the fact that you 'll have to capture at least 10% more of the source material if your session is going to be with a sample rate of 48KHz (a protools known bug, up to now), all my experience has been at 29.97 ndf. The interpret footage command takes virtually nothing if you are coming from a 29.92 video image to a 29.97 "interpreted" frame rate. also no extra disk space.

Also it is mandatory that the movie window does NOT show the movie; you accomplish that moving the window to the bottom left (or right) of the screen, and, if the machine is old/slow that the movie track is hidden, you only need it there while syncing it to the PT time code rule; something that with moderate practice takes you about one minute, using the identity mark command.

now, for the usability of the 7600 and scrubing i'll tell you this: i remember when using PTd24 4.3.1 and system 8.6 it was completley useful, now (we recently moved things to PT5.0 and MacOS 9.0) i'd say it will depend on: the amount of zooming, the number of colors (i just moved the mac screen colors to 256), i just tested it and aaaarrrrggghhh yes there's some delay in the image, now if the options would be owrking with a vtr or with this set up, a million times i would prefer this, because i think i can get a zooming level pre-set which won't lie, and if i want to check it in real time i don't have to wait for the elecgtro-mechanical elements to spot-lock up.

greetings.

vico
sonido mambo
mexico
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  #7  
Old 12-24-1999, 12:22 AM
trakbytes trakbytes is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

Although I haven't tried it with PT 5.0 yet, I'd go with either the Miro or the Fuse for now. I've been working with the Miro in PT 4.xx for a few years now, and it works fine, especially for the cash. Loading and conforming are no big deal-you'd probably have to load the video with an Avid card anyway, unless you work directly with the video editor's picture files (huge). Also, the Avid card is currently two slots, which puts you into expansion chassis mode if you're not already there. Maybe in a year or so, if Avid makes a decent video card occupying ONLY 1 SLOT!! it might make sense. Otherwise, go cheap and save your bucks for something more important, like a vacation!

Bob
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  #8  
Old 12-24-1999, 12:53 AM
vico vico is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

postman,

in our studio we've been working with the miro dc30+ for a while and have no complaints about the set up. Picture quality is in fact on an issue for us, we use it only as a reference for audio post, we've digitized more than 22 minutes of material with no problem (ie missing frames, bad sync). If you are tired of locking to a vtr you'll love to work with the miro dc30+, of course you have to digitize the video material before you actually use it as a reference, and of course you have to do it on premiere (use 5.1, never 5.0.x), premiere has a command named interpret footage that set's your material to the desired frame rate, as far as now we've had no serious problems, from the way old 7600/133/18GB d24 PT5.0 to the nice G4 (pci graphics)/350/196/18GB PT24 Mix(MacOS9.0)

if i can answer your questions i'll be glad to.

vico
sonido mambo
mexico
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  #9  
Old 12-24-1999, 12:57 AM
vico vico is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

ooops,

i meant to say more than 22 CONTINOUS minutes of material, that. not only 22 total minutes of material, and also i meant to say that picture quality is NOT an issue, we in fact limit the video data rate and compress video data.

sorry.

vico
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  #10  
Old 12-24-1999, 07:04 AM
dw dw is offline
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Default Re: DC30 or AVoption or VMod?

Postman,

I have the PERFECT solution for you. I'm running a 9600/350 with Mix + and 1 DSP farm. I've used the Miro DC30+ for a year before switching to the Media 100 hardware. HUGE difference in quality and stability. Media100 has always been known for their picture quality ( better than Avid AVR77 standard ) but many people aren't aware that it works great with Digi hardware. Remember, Digi will NEVER approve this card because, as you know, Media 100 has been for years the DIRECT competitor of Avid.
The Media 100 hardware will cost you more than your Fuse or DC30 card but, as I said, much better....and the bonus is Media 100 uses the same hardware from their $ 1500 system all the way up to their $ 20 000 system. You just upgrade the software. When I first bought the card, It was only used for audio post-production. Now that i've upgraded to using their software and have real time capabilities, I can't keep up with the demand for Video editing, DVD....and the card I got it used for $ 1000. Check it out.
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