Headphone mix help

[briaboy]

Hi - I'm trying (for the first time) to set up an independent headphone mix for a vocalist (using a Little Labs Monotor headphone amp), so they can choose what they want to hear from the overall mix. I've set up buses and sends etc., and all is fine coming through the vocalist's headphones. However, I'm hearing exactly the same mix (and every adjustment the vocalist makes) coming through my main DAW (UAD Apollo 8) headphones mix. How do I hear the "main mix" through my DAW-connected headphones, and the vocalist's mix only comes through the "headphone amp mix"?

All channels are routed through a mixbus btw.

Thank you.

[Darryl Ramm]

Huh? You are not describing the setup very clearly here.

The Little Labs Monitor is just a headphone amp. How exactly is the vocalist making changes to the mix they hear? Hopefully the vocalist does not have access to Pro Tools or the UAD console directly. Normally you should be giving them bus and/or individual track outputs into a hardware mixer driving into their headphone amp, and all they get to adjust is the hardware mixer... which should not cause changes in Pro Tools... if it does then you have an output of that mixer coming back into Pro Tools, find that mistake. And if you are letting them mess with the UAD console or you are recording through an outboard hardware mixer they are also using to monitor with then it's easy to mess up and fold back some of their monitoring signal into the recorded track.

But overall this will be a problem only you can solve... you have all the signal flow in Pro Tools and any hardware mixer or hardware monitoring setup in front of you. Follow the signal back from your monitors outputs and their headphones, solo/mute tracks often helps find problems, maybe draw that signal flow down on paper if it will help.

[briaboy]

All I'm trying to do is give the vocalist control of their own headphone mix while tracking.

[Darryl Ramm]

And again…. how are you doing that?

You have not described anything except the vocalist having a headphone amp. Which gives them a volume knob…. And that is all. That is not “control of a mix”.

So how *exactly* do they adjust their mix?

Edit: Or do you mean *you* are controlling the vocalist's monitoring mix and setting what they ask for? If so is that monitoring mix in Pro Tools and/or the UAD console?

If you are trying to manage getting both hardware monitoring working besides Pro Tools maybe just start with Pro Tools software monitoring and get that working. Its just in principle using sends and/or Auxes to set up a separate signal flow for the headphones, in practice there are lots of ways to do different stuff here for lots of reasons, and doing this can test folks knowledge of Pro Tools operation and signal flow. You can start by finding and following some tutorials, lots of them out there coveting this, here is one to start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voF5jhVwZyA

[albee1952]

Here is how I handle this, BUT it depends on what interface you have because you must have more than just Left/Right outputs. You need a separate set of outputs(assuming stereo) to feed the performer's headphones. When I had my 003, I used outputs 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 to feed 3 stereo headphone amps so 3 performers could each have their own mix. GO into the IO setup>Output tab and add paths(mapped to outputs) and assign to unused outputs. Now you add a send to every track and route to your headphone mix outputs(which feed the headphone amp). I would also make all of these sends Pre-fader so you making adjustments in the control room does not affect the headphone mix(***warnings below).

***Doing this works great, as long as you remember a few things:
1-If you solo something during a record pass, it will affect anything that employs a post-fade send(like sending to reverb) and that would be distracting to the artist(solution: don't solo anything while recording)
2-Doing this doesn't give the artist "hands-on" control as they still need the engineer to adjust any levels. Once you get a happy performer, save that session as a session template so they can start with the same HP mix.

Finally, I see you have the Apollo 8 and that should have plenty of outputs. I'm guessing you are NOT working within the UA mixer window? It might be time to reconsider that as the UA software allows for(IIRC) 4 separate headphone mixes(maybe hit youtube and look for some video tutorials)

[briaboy]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And again…. how are you doing that?

You have not described anything except the vocalist having a headphone amp. Which gives them a volume knob…. And that is all. That is not “control of a mix”.

So how *exactly* do they adjust their mix?

Edit: Or do you mean *you* are controlling the vocalist's monitoring mix and setting what they ask for? If so is that monitoring mix in Pro Tools and/or the UAD console?

If you are trying to manage getting both hardware monitoring working besides Pro Tools maybe just start with Pro Tools software monitoring and get that working. Its just in principle using sends and/or Auxes to set up a separate signal flow for the headphones, in practice there are lots of ways to do different stuff here for lots of reasons, and doing this can test folks knowledge of Pro Tools operation and signal flow. You can start by finding and following some tutorials, lots of them out there coveting this, here is one to start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voF5jhVwZyA

*This* is what I'm trying to do: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/se...r-performance/

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by briaboy

*This* is what I'm trying to do: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/se...r-performance/

Yep sorry I misunderstood you were literally giving control to the vocalist of their monitoring mix. I would try what I suggested earlier and look around for tutorials. And just start with Pro Tools software monitoring before adding in monitoring in the Apollo Condole if you are using that. (If you are setting up commercially don’t assume you will not need hardware monitoring at least for some talent). I expect Groove3 also covers this in some of their Pro Tools tutorials.

And both the video tutorial link I gave and Dave’s comments touch on some of the issues/behaviors to think about here even with software only monitoring.

[original_min]

Originally Posted by briaboy

*This* is what I'm trying to do: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/se...r-performance/

So just to check...

You have
- Main Faders to a Mix Bus, to Main outputs 1-2 & your headphones?
- Pre Fader Sends to a Headphone Bus, to outputs 3-4 for the client?

It's not quite clear how you are routing it.

[briaboy]

Hi, thanks.

- all faders to a mix bus, Mon L/R and my headphones
- prefader sends to headphone bus, and to Line 1-2 (headphone amp)

Does that make sense (pic attached)?

[Darryl Ramm]

So if you are adjusting the vocalist headphone mix with the send levels it should not be affecting what is going to the main monitors. If it is then you have the headphone sends/bus getting back into the main mix. And remember this might be happening in the Apollo Console. For debugging start with muting/soloing different tracks, esp. muting all input tracks and hearing if the headphone mix effects are coming back on an input (e.g. via the Apollo Console). Or even better stick a loud signal generator on different tracks and following where that tone goes. Start by putting it on the master fader for the headphones mix.

I would name the buses and maybe the IO ports, helps make it a clearer what is going on, and will mostly help you if you recall sessions in the distant future.