Cubase user converting to PTLE

[logic7]

It seems that I need to switch to some form of ProTools in order to work with anyone in a studio these days.

I have a decent setup for music, P3-700 w/768MB RAM, Emu-0404, Win2000 Pro, Cubase VST 5.1R2, Reason 2.5, Rebirth 2, NI plugins (Kontakt, Absynth, Battery, FM7, and Pro53), Lounge Lizard 2, Attack, and a bunch of fx plugins. Apparently, what I can do with this setup isn't good enough to get into a studio with anyone, I need ProTools. I can't seem to find the info on PTLE that I want, so I'm going to ask here:

1. Will PTLE work with Windows 2000, or am I doomed to use XP?
2. Can I use VSTi's with PTLE?
3. If I can, how's the sequencing with PTLE? Last I remember, the sequencer was extremely basic.
4. How's latency with the MBox? Right now, I'm at 7ms with a good load on my PC. I don't want to use anything higher than that for monitoring my VSTi's.
5. What is PTLE going to do for me that my current rig cannot?

(edit)
Also Can I get a Digi001 and be just as functional as the MBox or do I really need the MBox?
(/edit)

[tempest18]

1. Will PTLE work with Windows 2000, or am I doomed to use XP?
2. Can I use VSTi's with PTLE?
3. If I can, how's the sequencing with PTLE? Last I remember, the sequencer was extremely basic.
4. How's latency with the MBox? Right now, I'm at 7ms with a good load on my PC. I don't want to use anything higher than that for monitoring my VSTi's.
5. What is PTLE going to do for me that my current rig cannot?

(edit)
Also Can I get a Digi001 and be just as functional as the MBox or do I really need the MBox?
(/edit)

1. Windows XP Home or Professional
2. Yes with Fxpansion VST to RTAS Wrapper but they arent all gauranteed to work
3. The sequencing is stable. I still prefer Cubase for its midi but you cant beat PT for audio
4. I'm not so sure about Mbox, with Digi 002 rack at 64 samples, its pretty low
5. Get you into the studio you wanna be in as stated by your question.

Also you might wanna check ou the compatibility page before splashing out on a 001, if you current machine isnt up to scratch you may consider building a new one.

Chris Tempest

[macr0w]

(edit)
Also Can I get a Digi001 and be just as functional as the MBox or do I really need the MBox?
(/edit)

The 001 is much more functional than an M-box as long as you stick with 6.4

[spkguitar]

I have a decent setup for music, P3-700

I'm sorry, man, but IMHO that is inadequate these days even for Cubase. System Requirements for SX2.0 say that it will run on an 800MHz pentium, but they recommend 1.4GHz or faster. I see you are using Cubase VST, though... That's a different story.

The Pentium III is also not tested or recommended by digi as seen in the Known Incompatibilities section on both the
mBox compatibility page and the 001 compatibility page. You may be able to make it work, but it will probably be more trouble than it is worth. Most likely, you will need a PC upgrade to make it happen at all with protools, or even a more professional version of Cubase.

My input on some of your questions:
1. XP is much more stable, safe and secure than 2000, and I'm not the only one who feels that way. I would say you;re more 'doomed' if you stick with 2000.
2. Like Chris said, you can use many VSTi's with the vst-rtas wrapper, but most of the VSTi's you listed also have RTAS versions, and they will work natively within protools, so it's really a moot point. You may have to re-install the plugs and check off RTAS in the install, or you may have to get an update from the plugin manufacturer, but most times for registered users, those are free.
3. The newest version, 6.7 has greatly improved on the MIDI side of things. The sequencer is still kind of basic, but I kind of prefer it that way. (I have Sonar Pro, and I prefer working in protools) You wouldn't be able to use the 001 going that route, so I would have to recommend the mBox for that.
4. I just got my mBox for my portable/office solution, and I haven't really measured the latency. I haven't really needed to, though, it has never been a problem.
5. Exactly what Chris said, it will solve your problem: "isn't good enough to get into a studio with anyone, I need ProTools."
For your edit question, as I said above, for doing what you do using MIDI and softsynths, I would have to recommend the mBox and version 6.7

I'm very curious; when you say "what I can do with this setup isn't good enough to get into a studio with anyone", what exactly is it you're trying to do? And who told you that it isn't good enough? I say as long as you're making great music with it, and it works for you, that should be all that anybody cares about.
What is it exactly that you're trying to do?

[introvert]

I use Cubase SX 2 for my own projects, used to use Pro Tools at work, currently using a Fairlight DREAM console at work. I've got two machines at home, VST System Linked together, both running SX2, one with a MOTU 828 and one with a Digi 002 for audio interface. I keep PT6.7 installed on the Digi machine in case I need it for compatibility. I'm also a Digi cert guy, so it's nice to be able to keep my skills up.

That said, here's my two cents...

01) XP rules, 2000 drools. I too was concerned for a while, but when I made the switch (after SP1 was released), I was incredibly happy. I never look back to my 2k days.

02) The VST-RTAS adapter is great in theory, but in practice, it's been effective about 50% of the time for me. I've had some VSTs work wonderfully in PT (ReFX Vanguard, Linplug Albino), and some that ran terribly (V-Station and Arturia Minimoog come to mind). If you have any VSTs you cannot live without, I would consider talking to other users to see how their luck has been, or keeping Cubase VST installed on your machine so you can still have access to them.

03) They're singing the praises of MIDI in Pro Tools 6.7, and while it is an improvement, it's still not where it needs to be. There are, in my opinion, two classes of MIDI users: those who use it for basic musical purposes, and those who are power users. If you're just wanting to use a few synths and record your performance, Pro Tools is fine. If you want to really program MIDI and dig in deep, then it will leave you wanting more. The Pro Tools sequencer is totally unacceptable for my use, and that is why I have stayed with Cubase throughout the years. But I'm a hardcore electronic musician type. There's a reason guys like us use Cubase or Logic. They have the MIDI flexibility that their competitors do not. The lack of SysEx editing in Pro Tools is a perfect example of its inability to cope with serious MIDI use.

04) I've no clue regarding the latency in the MBox. I can speak for the Digi 002 rack unit though, and it is fine. I've gotten great performance out of it.

05) Don't let the studio snobbery of the world make you believe you must have Pro Tools or you're not professional. This is a ridiculous lie that is propogated by a number of users, and it simply isn't true. In my experience, I have seen studios that use all sorts of software, from Cubase to Digital Performer and back. In fact, I'm aware of several major film studios and post facilities in Hollyweird that are now posting films with Nuendo instead of Pro Tools. They're just not making it public knowledge, because they don't want to face the backlash of the brainwashed masses. Pro Tools may be one of the oldest, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best. Each package excels at some things and isn't as strong in others, and you should make your decision based upon what you need to accomplish.

If you're audio focused, and that's what you deal with 90% of the time, and you want a system that's simple and reliable, then Pro Tools is definitely the choice for you. PT is at the top of the pile when it comes to audio work. If you're interested in serious flexibility, MIDI strength and some amazing processing and synthesis firepower, however, avoid Pro Tools and go for Logic or Cubase SX (and consider augmenting it with a TC PowerCore or Universal Audio UAD-1 card). Not only will the latter system allow you to do all sorts of crazy things, it will also cost you less.

Last but not least... in terms of "working with other people," there are many ways to transfer sessions from one package to another, and you don't even need DigiTranslator, so save your cash. You can always bounce raw audio tracks (all the same length of your project) out of your session and then just import a bunch of WAVs or AIFFs into Pro Tools (or any other system). I do this to get between Cubase SX and Pro Tools 6.7 regularly. Every time a PT session comes into my studio, this is the first step, so I can get it into SX. As long as you're on top of your documentation and backups, this is easy.

Consider what your needs are, and consider which system will give you what you want. Don't buy something because "everyone uses it." Buy what will help you be most productive, because the end result is all that really matters.

-Mark K

[halfguard]

introvert, ive heard alot of what you said from a few people. i was wondering if you could give me an example of what cubase or logic could do that pt le can not. ive only been using the computer to sequence for about a year. all i know is pro tools. im considering getting cubase or maybee sonar to add to my midi capabilities. im starting to get into more remixing and i always see that most guys use logic or cubase for this. any help is appreciated.

[logic7]

01) XP rules, 2000 drools. I too was concerned for a while, but when I made the switch (after SP1 was released), I was incredibly happy. I never look back to my 2k days.

I just rolled back to Win2000 from XP. XP was just too much of a resource hog and it was completely tweaked for audio use. Maybe when I build my next box I'll use it.

02) The VST-RTAS adapter is great in theory, but in practice, it's been effective about 50% of the time for me. I've had some VSTs work wonderfully in PT (ReFX Vanguard, Linplug Albino), and some that ran terribly (V-Station and Arturia Minimoog come to mind). If you have any VSTs you cannot live without, I would consider talking to other users to see how their luck has been, or keeping Cubase VST installed on your machine so you can still have access to them.

I can't live without any of my plugins. I chose each of them to replace specific pieces of hardware so I could unload it all and go virtual.

03) They're singing the praises of MIDI in Pro Tools 6.7, and while it is an improvement, it's still not where it needs to be. There are, in my opinion, two classes of MIDI users: those who use it for basic musical purposes, and those who are power users. If you're just wanting to use a few synths and record your performance, Pro Tools is fine. If you want to really program MIDI and dig in deep, then it will leave you wanting more. The Pro Tools sequencer is totally unacceptable for my use, and that is why I have stayed with Cubase throughout the years. But I'm a hardcore electronic musician type. There's a reason guys like us use Cubase or Logic. They have the MIDI flexibility that their competitors do not. The lack of SysEx editing in Pro Tools is a perfect example of its inability to cope with serious MIDI use.

I'm also the electronic musician type (Detroit Techno, Electro and Deep House), but I've been doing hip-hop along side it for years. I need deep MIDI capabilities.

05) Don't let the studio snobbery of the world make you believe you must have Pro Tools or you're not professional. This is a ridiculous lie that is propogated by a number of users, and it simply isn't true. In my experience, I have seen studios that use all sorts of software, from Cubase to Digital Performer and back. In fact, I'm aware of several major film studios and post facilities in Hollyweird that are now posting films with Nuendo instead of Pro Tools. They're just not making it public knowledge, because they don't want to face the backlash of the brainwashed masses. Pro Tools may be one of the oldest, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best. Each package excels at some things and isn't as strong in others, and you should make your decision based upon what you need to accomplish.

The thing is, I'm trying to get into hip hop production more seriously. You've got to have ProTools of some form or no one is going to take you seriously. There's a producer by the name of 9th Wonder that uses Fruity Loops and has been scoring some major hits for JayZ and the like, but guys like that are few. I used to SELL PT back in '98 and '99 and back then, only audio guys were after it, now EVERYONE is calling it the "standard". I haven't kept up and just used what works for me and that's about to bite me in the ass.

[introvert]

www.musicxp.net for all your XP Audio tweaking needs. I highly recommend their guide. Good stuff. I would recommend a powerful machine for running XP though. I've got a pair of P4 2.4GHzs in my studio, both at 800MHz FSB, and I'm getting good performance.

I've got a few friends who do hip hop stuff (though it's not my thing), and they're doing alright. A lot of them are buying into the "Pro Tools is the best" thing, but it's funny because the most talented of the bunch, a guy named Alex, is a hardcore Cakewalk Sonar guy. He and I have had the Sonar vs Cubase battle many times, but I can't argue with his results. He sounds amazing. It all comes down to the person behind the machine in the end. As long as the talent is there, then it's all good.

If you simply cannot survive without Pro Tools, I would consider getting an MBox. Get in as cheaply as you can. Use it to transfer your sessions into Pro Tools format so you can work with other people. Then fly them back into Cubase SX to work on stuff. I do this with a rock band all the time. They'll send me their PT session, I bounce the WAVs over to Cubase SX, I do what I gotta do and then bounce them back. Works well.

And finally... MIDI. The interface is much cleaner and nicer. Much more intuitive. Cubase allows you a lot of editor options that aren't available in Pro Tools. You can also use what are called MIDI Plugins, which are basically plugins that will alter MIDI data in realtime or offline. They do all sorts of wonderful things. You've got an arpeggiator, step sequencer, MIDI echo/delay, randomizers (for velocity and other fun things), stuff like that. I thought they were kinda gimmicky at first, but some of them get some serious use.

Did I mention that you can have multiple outs from your soft synths in Cubase? I know PT is adding this in 6.7, for plugins that are specifically written to use it. But, as an example, I often have 16 outs coming out of Battery, and each out gets an individual channel on my mixer so I can process it however I want. It's VERY flexible in that regard.

-Mark K