Why is Digi 002 second league for more money ?

[ISedlacek]

I am a loyal PT user, working on it since the very time I have started my sound alchemy attempts. I had 001 for 3 years and just recently changed it for 002 R. Short time ago I was facing an unpleasant truth that above 48 kHz I have only SPDIF left (ADAT has gone). Quite bad.
Today I visited a friend who has Motu 828 ( for about 1000 dollars or so). I could not believe my eyes: Apart from whatever 002 has, it has ADAT S/MUX working in 96 kHz, it has the video synchro code, it has meters for all inputs etc. (It is also a way smaller)

I started deeply pondering
1) why Digidesign intentionally gives 2nd class limited products (comparing to MOTU for example) for even more money, not providing things others do: S/MUX, video synchro, meters, unlimited tracks number, etc. As an "industry leader", should not Digidesign show all the competitors how to care about the customers giving them the best possible product containing all the common accesories within a given product class ? If I want for example ADAT working in 96 kHz - I have to buy a HD system (!!)
2) Is there any valid, serious reason, any real advantage over other systems, that I should stick to ProTools ?
I can remember only one (but a serious one): In the course of time I have fully mastered the work with PTLE to the slightest detail. If I imagine that I would have to start learning completely different system, it scares me a lot ...

Anything else ? I cannot remember a single thing ...
I am quite disappointed. Are YOU happy with what Digidesign provides ?

[Paul Cavins]

I'm no PT expert, having switched from Cubase (with a Motu 896) less than a year ago.

This discussion isn't fair unless you consider the fact that for $1200, you get the 002R AND the Pro Tools Software. You buy the 002R and you are ready to hook up and record.

If you buy a 828, you still have to purchase the software, which is usually at least $600.

I missed the 896 meters at first, then I realized that it didn't make any difference at all, as I could look at the computer screen for that. There are advantages to PT software being so integrated with the hardware.


I haven't cared about the sample rate limitations on the ADAT's, though. That might bug me in the future, and I would like to see a hardware-based latency solution-

PC

[ISedlacek]

If you buy a 828, you still have to purchase the software, which is usually at least $600.


PC

There is an Audiodesk software included, having all the features PTLE has + an unlimited number of tracks, 64 busses etc.

[sdemott]

There is an Audiodesk software included, having all the features PTLE has + an unlimited number of tracks, 64 busses etc.

AudioDesk has no MIDI support and some of the audio & routing (bussing) features are stripped down versions of what DP has. The full blown Digital Performer is quite a bit better, and there is an upgrade path for $250 from AudioDesk to DP.

I setup an 828mkII for a friend who didn't want to shell out for the 002r and it was nice. I was almost tempted. I use both PT & DP and really find PT a lot better for audio (which I do 99% of my work in).

I think the problem Digi faces is simple, they have historicaly made their money on the TDM/HD systems...but the host systems are becoming more and more popular. They need to keep those sales going because it is becoming as huge part of their market. Now, how do they do that and not canabalize their HD sales. You give too much and nobody wants the HD systems, you give too little and people look to other companies.

I wish Digi would make PTLE a host based full PT. No track limits, all the sames features. It's something that won't happen, but it would be nice.

Back to the 828mkII, MOTU QC has been notoriously bad and many people are having lots of problems (just visit www.unicornation.com for details). And, in the end, PT just works. I get the job done and never worry about my system.

I have thought about switching several times, but I always end up just loving my PT system and then when I do use DP I get very frustarted with it. YMMV, but I just like PT am sticking with my 001 for now. When FireWire gets better I will move up to a FW based interface. I say, give them 2 more revisions - then it will be something.

Just my $.02

[carbonunit]

I'll agree with Steve...

When it was time for me to lay MY money down, and after researching
DP's user problems and complaints, I felt that (for me) AudioDesk wasn't
quite there yet, and even the full version of Performer had it's issues.

Up to this point in time, the 002R combination that I'm using has worked
flawlessly for me. Are there things I'd like to see?

Yes.... (ability to mix and monitor without PT hardware, or at least an OSX
version of PTFree), but it's been rock solid so far, and the support from
both Digi and this forum has been great.

Dave

[pk_hat]

I also second Steve's comments.

It's really pretty simple. Digi set the standard in digital recording years ago and is now a mainstay in most of the pro studios around the world. With Digi, TDM and HD systems are top priority. PT software has developed nicely, perhaps slowly, but steadily over the years and sill does things any other sequencer can't touch. While still a bit behind in the midi side of things, there's no arguing that audio recording and editing thereof is a breeze.

PT LE home systems, such as the 001, 002/R, Mbox, are simply there to get you to love ProTools, the software. They want you to love it to the point where, should you want to upgrade later on, once you feel you need to step up fron the home environment to a more pro setup, you won't look at anything else but Pro Tools. Enter HD and your number-crunching days trying to figure out how to get one.

In the meantime, as Steve said, they give you just enough to coax some more-than-decent-if-not-pro recordings with a simpler interface and the same software the big boys get to use, albeit with fewer tracks and hardware which leaves you begging for those 'tiny little extras' that the competition offers. Again, with MOTU, you will need to spend extra cash on a sequencer.

That's just my take. PT LE users are the future HD hopefuls in Digidesign's eyes. In the meantime, I stand behind the opinions that you get a great value with an 002R/PT setup and it's plenty to make some great music, which is the whole point of all this after all.

Now, gimme an "A" again? Let's play.