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  #21  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:54 AM
panamajack's Avatar
panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

You are a gentleman and a scholar!

I was just flaming you, but appreciate your explanation.

It was interesting to see the dialog. Can't wait to see the confusion with terminology once the new -- I already forgot what Avid says they will be called -- education, commerce...no that was something else, Libya... energy oh yeah, the... help me out here, the one that's the 5x... it's called a ?? can't find it anywhere in this thread...

Easy to take comments too personally. No harm intended...
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2011, 01:28 AM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by panamajack View Post
You are a gentleman and a scholar!

I was just flaming you, but appreciate your explanation.

It was interesting to see the dialog. Can't wait to see the confusion with terminology once the new -- I already forgot what Avid says they will be called -- education, commerce...no that was something else, Libya... energy oh yeah, the... help me out here, the one that's the 5x... it's called a ?? can't find it anywhere in this thread...

Easy to take comments too personally. No harm intended...
Ya, I kinda thought it was a flame but took the high road. Someone had to, and since I was the guy who was being a jerk and not understanding others answers as there was no common reference until someone told me about how the plug ins are now showing up in the interface, thought it should be me to set things right.

We all can get along, help each other out, make great art, and be big enough to admit our mistakes.

I hope Avid can do the same by at least making things clear as to what's what with each configuration. Especially in light that PT10HD might actually run worse on TDM hardware than native. Which begs again the question of why did they price it the way they did? So that people would avoid it? Or so they would wait to get it with the HDX cards?

Peace
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2011, 08:34 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

I have PT's HD 10 and it's not that it runs worse than Native in any way. It runs great actually. It's just that the TDM architecture makes it impossible to do just two things; implement a higher voice count and to implement a bigger delay comp engine. The fact that, with TDM, you don't have to worry about latency when tracking is still a major advantage for TDM. This will continue with HDX.
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:23 AM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

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Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
I have PT's HD 10 and it's not that it runs worse than Native in any way. It runs great actually. It's just that the TDM architecture makes it impossible to do just two things; implement a higher voice count and to implement a bigger delay comp engine. The fact that, with TDM, you don't have to worry about latency when tracking is still a major advantage for TDM. This will continue with HDX.
Hey Werner,

Glad to hear it's running well with TDM. $1500 is half of a new computer, and so many of my colleagues have gone native because they have shiny new many core macs, and are saying the performance is actually better on all fronts than HD3!?!? The bulk of the people staying with TDM are mixers (me included) and mixing stages.

I personally have never been able to mix a show on a native system without problems. But to be clear, I've never tried using the "HDN" card. I also understand one needs a really fast system to get the benefits.

My personal mixing suite has a Macpro 1,1 4 gigs of RAM, 10.6.8 PTs 8.04.cs2 (pt8.05 is just broken on my rig) and HD3 ACCEL - obviously since that's all they make for PCIe a 192, sync IO and an 888/24. Took a while but I have the rig rock solid for daily mixing of TV, film, video game cinematics and music along with so many other things I do with the rig including realtime net broadcasts and source connect sessions.

I just don't see how a native system could give me low enough latency for all the configs I do.

I just heard that the editors at Sound Delux went Native. Only the mix stages have stayed on TDM. And yet, many mixers are telling me HDN is fine for mixing now. Maybe I'll drop by one of the studios who went Native and check it out.

I've done all the upgrades to multiple rooms for myself and many studios from nubus to pci and all that, but I've never faced a software price hit like this one.

So unless my clients (who rely on me for advice) can get in for $599, I'm going to advise everyone to stay put, and wait till there is a demand for 10 or 11 from other studio's. losing B-B work right now is the only reason I can can justify to spend $1500 or more for software. For us 8HD guys, I think it's great that we have access to AAX plugins, and 10 compatibility "when we NEED it. My poor 7 guys, $2500??? I think for them, if they need to stay on a DSP system, waiting for the HDX cards is the only sane option since the software will come with the cards.

What made you go for it and did you do the $1000, $599, or beta?
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2011, 01:48 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

I was curiouse and I qualified for a free upgrade as I had purchased 9 just before the Oct 23rd cutoff point. I never actually used it as I never viewed it as having anything that I needed. I, for sure, would never have paid the crazy upgrade price from 8 to 10. The $599 is steep but it's worth the cost of doing business at least if, IMHO, your business needs those features. Also, I was on 8.1.1 which was actually a very stable release that, as well, had some important midi and delay comp bug fixes in it.

As far as Native goes, I can't use it as I mix as I go and part of that, at least for me, is that I need to be able to have some limiting and compression on my Master Bus and be able to monitor through it with no latency. That can't be done with Native, no matter how fast the computer is. This is what my personal workflow requires with respect to making records
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2011, 02:04 PM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
I was curiouse and I qualified for a free upgrade as I had purchased 9 just before the Oct 23rd cutoff point. I never actually used it as I never viewed it as having anything that I needed. I, for sure, would never have paid the crazy upgrade price from 8 to 10. The $599 is steep but it's worth the cost of doing business at least if, IMHO, your business needs those features. Also, I was on 8.1.1 which was actually a very stable release that, as well, had some important midi and delay comp bug fixes in it.

As far as Native goes, I can't use it as I mix as I go and part of that, at least for me, is that I need to be able to have some limiting and compression on my Master Bus and be able to monitor through it with no latency. That can't be done with Native, no matter how fast the computer is. This is what my personal workflow requires with respect to making records
Hey Werner thanks for the response! You are lucky you were able to grab it for free :) And yes, I mix for a living as well, track some live, and do sound design. My work flow is similar to yours in that I monitor through much DSP and design to picture. I also use the Neyrinck V-Mon so without TDM, my monitor system would not work. The Sony stages out here use Neyrinck too as do many post houses for monitoring.

Feeling better and better about sticking with a rock solid HD3 ACCEL and PTs 8.04.cs2

BTW, What kind of fixes did they do for 8.1 as I can get that for free but don't want to break an already stable system.

Thanks man!
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  #27  
Old 11-16-2011, 03:47 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

8.1.1 was rock solid for me. I would highly recommend it. The fix's pertained to midi performances being played back out of time, different than the original performance, as a result of the delay comp engine not working properly.
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