Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-05-2010, 02:23 PM
sundontlie sundontlie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18
Default Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

I have a show that is set up like "The View". Multiple hosts plus guests placed semi circle around a big table. Everyone is talking over everyone else making it sounds quite messy.

Normally, I would isolate who was talking and manually pulled down the other tracks to clean up the mix. Though with 10 iso tracks plus guest mics it's a lot to manage quickly. The signal to noise is such that talking and not talking are close to the same volume so using the waveform isn't always working as I'll miss a quick comment or side note. Expanders are running to help though with the high signal to noise it's not much help.

It is taking awhile to ingest the conversation, decide who is leading, which comments need to be heard and then mixing it. Does anyone have any tips or thoughts as to how to quickly get through cleaning up all the open mics inherent in a show like this? Any thing would help. Thanks.
__________________

Windows XP
Pentium(R) 4 CPU
3.2GHz
3GB of Ram
78Digi002 w/ DV Toolkit
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-05-2010, 06:19 PM
soundthinker soundthinker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 76
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Check out Dan Dugan's line of auto-mixers.

http://www.dandugan.com/


-jim
__________________
James Slanger
HD3 Accel PT9HD
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-05-2010, 07:52 PM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,370
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Is this live or a remix? If it's live, then an auto mixer may be very helpful as long as the gain change is only something like 5db per mic. You don't want to miss a new person's first words. Auto mixers have an unfortunate consequence in your situation where if you have the thresholds set low enough to turn on for normal speech, they all turn on when one person in the room gets very loud, which kind of makes things worse. Ya cannu change the laws of physics. If this is a remix situation, I don't understand the question.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-05-2010, 11:59 PM
soundthinker soundthinker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 76
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
Auto mixers have an unfortunate consequence in your situation where if you have the thresholds set low enough to turn on for normal speech, they all turn on when one person in the room gets very loud, which kind of makes things worse.
This is true, but at least for every mic that crosses the threshold they lower all the mics enough to keep the noise floor relatively constant. For example:

If one mic is above the threshold, it's not attenuated.
If two mics are above the threshold, they both are attenuated 2dB
If three mics are above the threshold, all three are attenuated 3.5dB

I use these mostly for live mixing of shows like you are dealing with but have used them in post-production on occasion for pre-taped shows. Set them up as a post-fade insert and use the Pro Tools automation to help them along a bit. A control surface would greatly speed up this process.

-jim
__________________
James Slanger
HD3 Accel PT9HD
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:22 AM
idris idris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Harpenden, just north of London, UK
Posts: 444
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

I may be missing something here, but could you use Duckers? (ie a Limiter with the sidechain fed by the other channels.)
This may be the same as a n Automixer.
__________________
PT12.4.0 / HDN / HD Omni / MC Control / Intensity Pro / El Capitan / 3.7 Quad core Intel Xeon ES (trashcan) MacPro / 12GB RAM
Over 15yrs experience in TV. Currently mainly indie features.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:28 AM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,370
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Quote:
If one mic is above the threshold, it's not attenuated.
If two mics are above the threshold, they both are attenuated 2dB
If three mics are above the threshold, all three are attenuated 3.5dB
I stand corrected then! Years ago I used an automixer on a gig. It didn't reduce overall gain with more active mics, the inputs were either at full gain above threshold or reduced gain. It turned me off of auto mixers. What you describe is much more practical. "Gain sharing" I think Dan Dugan called it. My experience (and earlier comments) are based on gating technology.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-06-2010, 10:08 AM
soundthinker soundthinker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 76
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
It didn't reduce overall gain with more active mics, the inputs were either at full gain above threshold or reduced gain. It turned me off of auto mixers.
Yeah, I can see why.

I've only used the Dugan units and they've been great. Sure licensed the algorithm from Dan a while ago and had a similar device.


-Jim
__________________
James Slanger
HD3 Accel PT9HD
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:19 PM
jeremiahmoore jeremiahmoore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 474
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

Ditto on the Dugan recommendation. It's a pretty smart algorithm, also balancing the noise floor so it remains relatively constant and doesn't pump.

I believe there is work underway toward a plug-in version as well.

-jeremiah
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-07-2010, 12:25 AM
jeremiahmoore jeremiahmoore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 474
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

This quick note from Dan Dugan (who is apparently having difficulty logging in to the DUC at this moment...)

- Dugans don't have thresholds
- Shure has never done anything like gain sharing.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:34 AM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 2,370
Default Re: Multiple Sound Source Talk Show Style Mix

I think I had used a Shure unit.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Routing to multiple outputs from one source broken? bleen macOS 4 11-19-2013 11:54 AM
source connect for long radio show? cubivore Post - Surround - Video 14 02-02-2011 09:12 AM
Festival style show files mackerr VENUE Live Sound Systems 2 08-13-2010 12:44 AM
Multiple Devices Connected To 003 - Clock Source Advice Matt Darcy 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 08-31-2008 04:13 AM
Saving confusion with multiple sound source Mike Jones 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 02-26-2005 01:42 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:20 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com