Missing regions in audio track + major automation loss

[garnoil]

2 problems while mixing a film (160 voices TDM and RTAS, HD film, Mac 8 core, PT 8,03, Leopard):

1).- Today we realized that "most" regions, but not all, in one of the dialogue tracks suddenly went missing. The director and I had already gone through most of the film and while today we did some minor "delete edits" in mostly sound effect tracks, we did not delete any audio from any of the dialogue tracks. Also, since *there were* a few regions "left" in the audio track, it is reasonable to assume that I didn't accidentally, somehow, hit "delete all regions from track".

I have full session backups and it was fairly easy to restore the track but I am wondering why this happened? Is it possible that I have reached the maximum number of regions allowed in the system, and therefore, some regions are being dropped (deleted from the session for ever?)

When I re-imported the missing track as "session data" from the back up session, the computer did not appear perform the "normal" data session import. Instead, the task manager showed that it was "processing audio" for every single audio track and region in the session which took about 20 minutes although it only imported the one audio track that I had chosen.

2).- Automation loss: Same session, after completing a major manual re-conform, all automation for the last reel of the film was lost. I did the manual re-conform by *grouping all regions in the session -using the region group command and NOT the group tracks command-*, and cutting and pasting the entire massive region group. The automation for the entire session was kept intact except for the last 20 minutes of the film where "all regions in all tracks" lost *all of their automation*. It would be an intensive task to "manually* remove all the automation for all of these regions as each region contains extensive automation to volume, pan, EQ, Dynamics, sends, LFE, and special processing. It is safe to assume that this is defenitley computer/software related and not user error.

Final thought, while performing the manual re-conform by trying to cut and paste the "session's region group" that I created, the computer crashed every third or fourth edit. I mean, it crashed at least 30 times in two days and would only work again after a cold boot. I think this may be related to the undo function, as the software tries to puts the edit into the undo buffer which is simply not large enough to hold thousands of regions, and gigs of info, all at the same time? These crashes could have easily corrupted the session.

[Frank Kruse]

I don´t know if the crash-with-large-region-group-bug was ever resolved in PT8 but what helps in 7.4 is to set the undo prefs to 1 and not 32. In 7.4 it prevents you quite well from a beachball when undoing a copy/paste operation with a very large region group.
Maybe that bug is still there in PT8 (at least I never read about it being fixed in an of the readme-docs in any new release).

The other bug you mention reminds of the EQIII bug I´ve been venting about for weeks. It leads to an inability to copy paste ANY automation within a session on the same track or from track to track.

frank.

[garnoil]

Frank,

In regards to the re-conform issue. Yes, you are right, I actually lowered the levels of undos to 2, but that didn't help so I tried everything: changed the display from waveforms to blocks, closed all un-neccesary floating windows, changed the buffer size, and even made all tracks but the dialogue tracks inactive. None of these really helped. I think that may be a "purge" for the clipboard can help, most other apps use a clipboard purge. In my work flow, mix in the box for indy feature films, I have to do manual recons as many of my clients do not use EDLs.

[Postman]

The only possibly relevant (yet still unhelpfull) info I can add,

I'm still on 8.0.1 (PPC don't cha know). Last month I finished a film that was reconformed several times, fully automated. I only had 85 or 90 tracks but there were around 14000 files and at least that many edits. Reconforms involved placing the entire film to a later timeline point and then copying/pasting to the new timeline. By the end of conforming, the number of edits has been doubled because there is an old version and new version both on the timeline. No audio or automation was dropped during any of the conforms, to my knowledge. Remember this is with 8.0.1 but I cannot imagine Avid would have lowered undo buffer limits (on purpose) when preparing 8.0.3.

I DID say this post wouldn't be helpful.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by Postman

The only possibly relevant (yet still unhelpfull) info I can add,

I'm still on 8.0.1 (PPC don't cha know). Last month I finished a film that was reconformed several times, fully automated. I only had 85 or 90 tracks but there were around 14000 files and at least that many edits. Reconforms involved placing the entire film to a later timeline point and then copying/pasting to the new timeline. By the end of conforming, the number of edits has been doubled because there is an old version and new version both on the timeline. No audio or automation was dropped during any of the conforms, to my knowledge. Remember this is with 8.0.1 but I cannot imagine Avid would have lowered undo buffer limits (on purpose) when preparing 8.0.3.

I DID say this post wouldn't be helpful.

The issue (at least the beachball-issue) happens when you conform with one giant region-group and then trim or undo things like the OP did. Not with just ungrouped tracks.

[garnoil]

Well, I had to re-import the last reel from the un-re-conformed session and now I am getting 9022 errors and can't even open the session. I have full back ups and somehow I can revert to where I am today but I estimate this will take me several days..what a pain!

If PT or the operating system can only handle a given number of fades or files or whatever, why does it not automatically "prevent the user" from loading any more files or fades than in can handle. It should have a dialogue that says: you have reached the limit "X" number of files could not be imported, go back, delete or consolidate a bunch of stuff and try re-importing. Instead, it doesn't say anything other than error 9022 and the session simply no longer opens?????? It is not possible to know how many files and how many fade files I am importing when I import session data from another session. In fact, I don't even know how many files or fade files the session has or what the exact limit is? May be PT could have a counter (like an odometer) so that one can monitor when one is reaching the maximum number of files allowed.

[Frank Kruse]

Just to rule out the obvious: Have you done a remove unused regions? You have to repeat that 4-5 times close and re-open because this function is buggy in PT. After that you at least got rid of all unused "debris".

frank.

[garnoil]

I did remove unused regions but only "once", may be that is it. First I have to find a way to open this session again (it won't open error 9022)

[garnoil]

Postman,

I copy and pasted the message below from another duc thread about the same problem that I am having. As you can see, this is apparently from "Digidesign Engineering". I am not using beat Detective (I have nothing to do with that) but the error appear to be because one exceeds "a maximum limit" of whatever is allowed (files, fades, regions I don't know).

I made a brand new session and tried to import all of the audio tracks from the "corrupted session" ALL AT ONCE at once and I got this:

Could not complete request because out_of_range_imm_PolyVectorImp;AT

Importing one track at the time works (even several tracks at the time) but I am fearful that at some point, I will make a track import and again I will reach the limit (or whatever it is) and corrupt this session as well. because there is no warnings, by the time you get the 9022 it is too late to stop the import that caused it.

May be if Digidesign is reading this, they could chime in.


Re: DAE error 9022 ? - Cannot open large project? A -9022 error translates to "kFicTooManyItemsErr// Number of needed items goes beyond a lists max size."

You mentioned using Beat Detect on these sessions....its possible that some unused region/unused fade faile corruption is going on.

Maybe try removing all unused regions? Or consolidating some playlists, then removing unused regions?

-tv
__________________
Tim vdB
Digidesign Engineering

"There's a fine line between stupid and clever."

[The Cargo Cult]

Originally Posted by garnoil

I have to do manual recons as many of my clients do not use EDLs.

of course they do - you just didn't get angry enuf yet