Multiple Causes of Noise Blasts in Pro Tools 12.4, 12.5, 12.5.2 (?), 12.7, 12.7.1

[Southsidemusic]

2 Votes Avid won't even bat an eye at that. If everyone has these blasts why is it only 2 people who voted??? Well 3 with me..

[unkJE]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

2 Votes Avid won't even bat an eye at that. If everyone has these blasts why is it only 2 people who voted??? Well 3 with me..

Thanks for voting!
This major Topic should be addressed - whether people vote or not.


Spot of Badinage on this very same issue - between Member Bob Olhsson and myself:
Does Avid care about the ideascale? Is it an insult?
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=389434

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I'm sure Avid is very aware of what percentage of users are voting and that's probably why they did the recent ACA survey.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

If WE make it more of a focal point, that will make it more of a focal point for avid!

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

There's no excuse for everybody to not vote!

Originally Posted by unkJE

I think ‘the troops’ are jaded, after being ignored for so long.

Don’t get me wrong – I’d love people to vote on the link below, as it’s a list of the Top 25 Pro Tools IdeaScale Ideas ….
http://protools.ideascale.com/a/idea...tures%E2%80%99
…. requesting please ‘Fix all known bugs BEFORE adding any new features’.

The number of votes on IdeaScale is a joke, compared with the number of Pro Tools users world-wide.
I can certainly understand why most appear reluctant to vote – especially after many here have already given so much of their time.

In a perfect world, on a User-friendly site, I imagine some companies would pay qualified people to gather all the info and topics already covered by their Forums, without asking Members and Moderators to sign up to further Forums.

Time is money.

Perhaps it’s time for Avid to give Jeffro a substantial pay-rise, and appoint him ‘Chief Conduit to Sanity’, as he’s already shown countless times that he can deliver results promptly and calmly – and he’s got an eye for detail and a flair for follow-up.
Jeffro understands our true priorities and their level of importance.

I hope Avid quickly acknowledges the fact that, in order to prosper, it must not only satisfy its stock-holders, but also its Customers.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

"The troops" only constitute a tiny portion of Avid's users. Avid has reached out to many of my friends in large facilities. We in the DUC are mostly self-employed. If we don't care enough to post bugs and vote on suggestions, why should Avid care about our opinion? The squeaky wheel generally gets the grease.

Originally Posted by unkJE

By all accounts, the Jar of Grease is way too small.

1 Feature (Track Freeze) out of the Top 25 most requested?

You give nothing ... you get nothing.

Originally Posted by unkJE

I think the feeling is: "Avid asked - DUC Members and Moderators and Avid staff gave - then almost nothing eventuated" - hence the OP asking "Is it an insult?"

Once bitten, twice shy.

I’m not “in the know” – but I would think Avid’s income from Perpetual and Subscription licenses might just outweigh that derived from large facilities. How many Big End customers purchase annually?
How many Big End customers are there?
I was told one of our ABC TV stations wasn’t going past PT 7 – because the hardware and the software match.

What's with Avid's telling us we need a Support Plan, when there's complaints here about callers knowing more than the Support Staff?
Were we told that the Annual Upgrade/Support Plan would make for quicker releases?

I intend renewing my Annual Upgrade Plan, when the "Renew" option becomes available.
However, I certainly understand why the disgruntled "won't play ball" ....

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Look at the pathetic vote numbers! Almost none of DUC members gave. That's the problem.

Big customers prefer rental for tax reasons. Many are running their old TDM hardware into the ground at which point they'll probably rent audio over ip compatible interfaces such as Avid's new MTRX interface.

Originally Posted by unkJE

I respectfully beg to differ.

I feel the onus is on Avid to implement the most requested Features, before asking for any more Beta-testers.

Who's supporting whom?

Give us stability first – it’s the best cure for scepticism!

Others may vote if they wish:
Please include this "Stop the Noise Blasts" Feature in Pro Tools immediately!

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...y!/266921-3779

[propower]

Originally Posted by unkJE

Just in case these Threads don’t get merged, fellow Member propower added this:

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2421855&postcount=19

Voted on it FWIW. Yes the software should just not allow a > x jump in level in any output level in less than y amount of time. The max rate of change for a 20kHz signal is well known. Pretty much anything above that is a warning and more than a few samples in a row that exceed that rate of change (or a single sample at let's say 2X that rate of change) should result in an error stoppage or mute event. Simple math really. Using this method one could monitor at - 20dBFS and be well protected long before the output reaches 0dBFS. Protecting me at -1dBFS is not really protection. -1dBFS of pure noise is just as damaging. Any chance the company will implement anything like this though?

Thanks for posting this here. The big thing is a hard limit is really not going to help much. For example - I typically track with my vocals hitting -10dBFS and the backing tracks at -20dBFS or so. If all of the sudden there was a noise burst at -3dBFS (due to hard limit) it would be just as damaging. A true full spectrum blast at +20dB over the general level - hard to imagine how bad that would be. It is rate of change that needs to be controlled - not absolute level. The rate of change for an errant signal is easy to detect in just a few samples. Any output that tries to exceed that rate of change is errant and should be muted or taken out of record.

[unkJE]

Originally Posted by propower

....The big thing is a hard limit is really not going to help much. .... It is rate of change that needs to be controlled - not absolute level ...

Thanks for explaining:
“It is rate of change that needs to be controlled - not absolute level.”
I am “out-of-my-depth” and appreciate your input.

Does this mean that both ice9 and (something similar to) Reaper’s offering (both previously mentioned) couldn’t stop these Noise Blasts in Pro Tools?
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2421476&postcount=10

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2422372&postcount=26

[Southsidemusic]

Originally Posted by unkJE

...

Does this mean that both ice9 and (something similar to) Reaper’s offering (both previously mentioned) couldn’t stop these Noise Blasts in Pro Tools?
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2421476&postcount=10

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2422372&postcount=26

Yes, atleast here, i said that in the PM with you that a limiter on a master won't work. I had limiters on masters and still got tweeters blown on the Genelec 1038's and on a pair of NS10's but i didn't use any explanation hehe

[unkJE]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

Yes, atleast here, i said that in the PM with you that a limiter on a master won't work. I had limiters on masters and still got tweeters blown on the Genelec 1038's and on a pair of NS10's but i didn't use any explanation hehe

This paragraph from ice9 that made me think that there may be a solution:

“FAST
Ice9 Automute's soft-muting function will begin to attenuate the gain before a single sample over the threshold has passed. Instantaneous radical attenuation will occur if the threshold is exceeded by a severe and potentially dangerous amount.”

http://www.cerberusaudio.com/Software/Products/Ice9/

DarkandKurious posted:
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2421742&postcount=20

Originally Posted by DarkandKurious

A hard limit on the output won't solve anything, as the DA can't produce above 0dBFS anyway - the hardware simply cannot produce a dynamic range of 800 odd dB. a 300dB noise blast will be just as loud as a 700dB one at the output if heard at the same monitor volume - it will be at the full volume of the DA. As we often mix needing to hear how much range there is to full scale, a limiter will not help.

Ice9 from what I understand (which I haven't tested) works by muting the sound if the threshold is reached, so a limiter with a 1:negative infinity ratio, rather than a limiter with with a 1: positive infinity ratio.

[propower]

OK - I should have read more carefully - maybe the Ice9 approach could work. I hadn't thought of using a ducker on the output (assuming of course that PT is still working at all correctly when the blasts happen.

Could try the ProCompressor (or something like it with a ducking function (negative ratio)) as last in the chain on outputs with a high negative ratio and fastest attack possible. This assumes that the blast is pre output and PT is still really working. Worth a shot though - and is AAX DSP and Native...

[unkJE]

Originally Posted by propower

....maybe the Ice9 approach could work. I hadn't thought of using a ducker on the output (assuming of course that PT is still working at all correctly when the blasts happen.

Could try the ProCompressor (or something like it with a ducking function (negative ratio)) as last in the chain on outputs with a high negative ratio and fastest attack possible. This assumes that the blast is pre output and PT is still really working. Worth a shot though - and is AAX DSP and Native...

As I still haven’t installed PT 12, can you (or anybody else) please test if Pro Compressor used as a ducker will “catch the Noise Blasts”?
You could use one of the posted examples – such as these from DUC Member Meads:
Noise Blast in 12.5 - just had one and recorded it
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2353912&postcount=1

Thanks for your time – it’d be wonderful to solve this!

[unkJE]

To add your vote, (IdeaScale Threads merged) – here's the page:

App-Wide Failsafe Against Noise Blasts

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...ts/266672-3779

[TheNeil]

Got another one here, and my ears are still ringing days later

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=390970

Does look like the root cause for this one is a Kontakt bug though. To me this only strengthens the need for an overall output failsafe, rather than just trying to track & fix these bugs 1-by-1; that's important too, but if we only go that way there will always be the risk of more!