Volume Trim lane vs Automation

[Cliffy_Boy]

I've been using the Volume Trim playlist lane to reduce the Drum bus during verses rather than volume automation. This way I have control of the faders as I tend to reduce the entire mix using the ALL group near the end of a mix to give me some necessary headroom that seems to get eaten up during the mix.

I know I can use use trim automation but this adds a few extra steps rather than just moving all faders down in one shot. It seems just trimming the volume gives me the best option as the faders aren't automated, just the relative volume between the verse and chorus.

Looking through the DUC and other forums, almost no one seems to do this and they rather rely entirely on full write automation and then trim the automation as necessary.

Any thoughts why the Volume Trim lane doesn't seem to be the go to option for adjusting relative levels of a track while still allowing fader moves?

[Drew Mazurek]

You realize that when you use the ALL group to trim your mix, you're double trimming if you have any subgroup masters or effects returns in the session. Just checking.

[Cliffy_Boy]

Thanks Drew. I actually make my own MIX group that excludes returns, aux groups etc. Just the audio tracks.

Like all of us, we having fader creep. I want to keep my track volume changes but still be able to nudge faders up and down without having to start trimming automation.

Seems like adjusting the Volume Trim lane solves that yet it's one of those things you rarely see done or mentioned. Was just wondering why.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by Cliffy_Boy

Thanks Drew. I actually make my own MIX group that excludes returns, aux groups etc. Just the audio tracks.

Like all of us, we having fader creep. I want to keep my track volume changes but still be able to nudge faders up and down without having to start trimming automation.

Seems like adjusting the Volume Trim lane solves that yet it's one of those things you rarely see done or mentioned. Was just wondering why.

I do a similar thing. Except that I don't include members of a submix but their Masters instead. Otherwise you're disturbing feeds into compressors etc possibly when all you really want to do is lighten the stereo buss. I always call mine ALL BUT. :)

As for your original question, I can't really tell what you're trying to accomplish based on your description. Sorry.

[Cliffy_Boy]

Thanks Drew

If I do write or latch automation, my tracks volume rides are fixed in place. If I just wanna nudge up the volume of the Vox for example. I can't. I have to select trim automation and move it up. The problem happens when I want to move ALL faders down a bit. This now involves going into track with volume automation and individually lowering the volume by trimming the automation. One by one. Rather then using the "ALL-BUT" group to just bring them all down a few dB.

If you go into the playlist lanes pull down, (little triangle at the bottom of the track strip in the edit window, one of the options in Volume Trim. This opens a Volume Trim lane that you can select part of the line and drag it down a bit. The beauty is that unlike automation, you can still move the fader and the entire Volume Trim line moves up or down with jumping back to the volume value originally set as in automation.


This way I can easily lower the volume of say the drum buss at the quiter parts of the song and still retain the ability to change the entire tracks volume up or down by a fixed amount without losing the relative volume changes on the tracks.

whew...

[dwaynedelario]

Hey Cliffy.. can you do this with VCAs? They are a nice extra visual for me and easily coalesced if i like the overall gain change.

[Philthy]

Originally Posted by Cliffy_Boy

I've been using the Volume Trim playlist lane to reduce the Drum bus during verses rather than volume automation. This way I have control of the faders as I tend to reduce the entire mix using the ALL group near the end of a mix to give me some necessary headroom that seems to get eaten up during the mix.

I know I can use use trim automation but this adds a few extra steps rather than just moving all faders down in one shot. It seems just trimming the volume gives me the best option as the faders aren't automated, just the relative volume between the verse and chorus.

Looking through the DUC and other forums, almost no one seems to do this and they rather rely entirely on full write automation and then trim the automation as necessary.

Any thoughts why the Volume Trim lane doesn't seem to be the go to option for adjusting relative levels of a track while still allowing fader moves?

I use trim the same way. The rest of the thread is boring. I don't seem to have much trouble with fader creep. Every time you want something louder, take something else away instead.

[Stig Eliassen]

First off - I hate write auto mode. Latch is the new write.

Anyway, I mix the kick in the -15 to -10 dbFS range, depending on the genre and the complexity of the song, and I never have to trim the mix down. Just saying...

I use trim automation to either

• trim existing volume automation in latch or touch, and coalesce after every pass
• trim existing volume automation in read mode during a recording session to satisfy the talent(s)
• park all faders @ unity in read/trim to force clients to stop looking at the moving faders, and actually LISTEN instead

My 2,- NOK

[groundcontrol]

VCAs. Nuff said.

[P,B,S]

VCA,s are great just like a aux buss with out taking a voice.
For myself on things like drums especially toms and snare fills with lots of dynamic range that may not be intensional. I like to just use the pencil and put break points between the various sections with the fader at unity so not to disturb the nice straight volume line. Then when you get deeper into a mix just use the selector tool to drag up or down the volume line . Works great for me . This way all separate fills are out lined with pencil break points and you can get really nit picky from there . Plus if over time things change some spots may still work some might need tending to and it wont interfere with previous volumes.
That is probably a newbie way of doing things but it works wonders for me , seems to be very fast and efficient and it prevents needless automation break points that cause the thin automation pop ups.