Help With Discovery Channel Specs Please

[ripekeai]

Hi All,
I'm a newbie to post but have a good grasp on music production/pro tools etc. I have my first of a few Discovery gigs approaching and would appreciate some help understanding and achieving the requirements of the specs. I've set up what I think is a pretty good template based on their deliverables and true peak specs but am uncertain about the following:

-True peak ceiling is -10db but "Max VU 300ms/20db" is -17db. Is this an RMS reading and how do I configure a meter at 300ms/20db. Which meter are you using for this?

-What is the best way for achieving short term and infinite term dialogue levels? Do you use compression/limiting on a dialogue bus? All of my master channels before layback currently have a waves L3 multi set to -10 for both threshold and ceiling but I'm not sure how to achieve the requested dialogue range. I AM metering with Dolby Media Meter.

-Full mix single track mono dialogue levels are supposed to be -3db quieter. How do you meter/achieve this?

-Fortunately in regards to this question, the particular show doesn't have a narrator, but I'd like to know what your process is for delivering un-dipped M&E tracks. My guess is that you have a sidechained compressor active for the dipped mix and you simply bypass it for the un-dipped layback; is this correct?

I know there is a lot to cover in my thread so, thank you in advance for your contributions.

[BobbyDazzler]

Originally Posted by ripekeai

following:

-True peak ceiling is -10db but "Max VU 300ms/20db" is -17db. Is this an RMS reading and how do I configure a meter at 300ms/20db. Which meter are you using for this?

AFAIK a VU (Volume Unit) meter is an RMS meter with a 300ms response time and a 1k tone at -20 peak should read 0 on you VU.
The -17 peak tone will give you 0VU on an RMS meter, (unless its K-System which will read it 3db hotter).
The Bomb Factory RMS Meter set to -20 will give you a working -17 peak if I'm not mistaken.

.

[philip888]

Originally Posted by ripekeai

Hi All,
I'm a newbie to post but have a good grasp on music production/pro tools etc. I have my first of a few Discovery gigs approaching and would appreciate some help understanding and achieving the requirements of the specs. I've set up what I think is a pretty good template based on their deliverables and true peak specs but am uncertain about the following:

-True peak ceiling is -10db but "Max VU 300ms/20db" is -17db. Is this an RMS reading and how do I configure a meter at 300ms/20db. Which meter are you using for this?

-What is the best way for achieving short term and infinite term dialogue levels? Do you use compression/limiting on a dialogue bus? All of my master channels before layback currently have a waves L3 multi set to -10 for both threshold and ceiling but I'm not sure how to achieve the requested dialogue range. I AM metering with Dolby Media Meter.

-Full mix single track mono dialogue levels are supposed to be -3db quieter. How do you meter/achieve this?

-Fortunately in regards to this question, the particular show doesn't have a narrator, but I'd like to know what your process is for delivering un-dipped M&E tracks. My guess is that you have a sidechained compressor active for the dipped mix and you simply bypass it for the un-dipped layback; is this correct?

I know there is a lot to cover in my thread so, thank you in advance for your contributions.

Contact "Postman"
http://duc.avid.com/member.php?u=7236

Richard Fairbanks.
http://www.pharoahaudio.com/soundhomepage/contact.html

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by ripekeai

True peak ceiling is -10db but "Max VU 300ms/20db" is -17db. Is this an RMS reading and how do I configure a meter at 300ms/20db. Which meter are you using for this?

I have to guess that they mean -10dBFS (full scale). 300ms is the integration time of an audio VU meter, so it's redundant to say VU 300ms. What I think this spec is trying to convey is "Average around -20dbFS = 0 VU, and make sure your peaks do not exceed -10dBFS."

[MIKEROPHONICS]

Mix your DM&E first (it's good practice to route these all to separate groups, that you can print individual stems from), send the output of the D M E groups to the DME group, route that to the full mix bus (along with the VO) then dip the DME under the narration. When printing stems, send a pre fader output from the DM&E stem to wherever you print it and it will be obviously undipped.
Not hard at all

Personally I do not use dynamics to dip DME under narration as it is not predictive. The dip heralds a change and primes the brain.

Happy mixing

[Postman]

Contact "Postman"

Why me? I might know a thing or two but I don't have anything whatsoever to do with Discovery.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

'that'll learn you' as they say in yorkshire

[philip888]

Originally Posted by Postman

Why me? I might know a thing or two but I don't have anything whatsoever to do with Discovery.

Sorry.

[ripekeai]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

Personally I do not use dynamics to dip DME under narration as it is not predictive. The dip heralds a change and primes the brain.

Happy mixing

Regarding predictive dipping, I watched a tutorial where a muted duplicate of the VO was triggering the sidechain and nudged 6 frames earlier.

[Postman]

I think Mikes point is more about a certain artistry that can be accomplished beyond mindless compressor ducking. One of our jobs while mixing is to guide the viewer's attention. Sometimes it is very appropriate to lower the music well ahead of dialog (a second or more), to allow the viewer to stop being pulled along by the music and "drift" for just a moment...and then be snagged by the next spoken thought. These times are dictated by taste. Same can be said on the back side when music may (or may not) want to come up in level.

There are other times when I totally do not want the music to change in level at all when the dialog comes back. And then, the music level never is consistent anyway so you're always having to back up and do it again, so is there really any significant time saved? Maybe the compressor automatic duck trick works for some, but not for me. I can see it may work okay for a spot maybe, where everything must be in your face from wall to wall.

You have only quoted a small portion of the specifications, I think, and some that are confusing. The best way to acheive the proper dialog levels for you is to start mixing, using ears with peak level limits being observed. Measure and see where you are vs. the spec sheet. You'll probaby have to adjust compressor threshholds, eq, and do a whole lot of fader riding to get an even mix that doesn't sound like crap. I'm not sure what Discovery's specs are like these days, but typically we have to work pretty hard to get the loudness up high enough to satisfy without sounding like it is totally squashed and full of noise. Welcome to post.