Thinking of leap from LE to TDM

[DodgeSongs]

I've been a PTLE user for 5 yrs, and when complaining about CPU bottlenecks and latency, a friend recently asked "why don't you drop a few bucks and go TDM?". Stupid question #1-what's required equipment-wise to get started? I currently use a MacG4 dual 1.42,1.5G ram.Digi 002, PT7, tons of LE plugs. I know this is tough to quantify, but I'm asking for opinions here. How much does one have to spend?

[JFreak]

Buy a 2nd hand MIX core and 888/24 interface from eBay. This should cost you about a grand. But before you buy, make sure that the seller is able to transfer ownership to you, and therefore make your system eligible for upgrade to HD system later on. Then, if you choose to upgrade to more powrful (and current) system, you can get your HD system for about half price.

Or if you have the money now, then just buy basic HD1 core system. The list price is about ten grand, but there are better deals available; however, the upgrade route will be the cheapest, if you're not scared about the extra work.

[mixer]

unless you need the higher track count..first i would spend the money on a more powerfull computer..you are going to need it anyway...and see if that solves your problem. a new 002 will sound better than an old mix system..and will be able to handle more of the newer plugins..a mix system at this point in my opinion is a waste of money.

[JFreak]

a new 002 will sound better than an old mix system

Converters in 002 and 888 are on par. the difference is effectively zero. plus the 48bit TDM mixer sounds a lot better than the 32bit floating point mixer in LE -- and this makes the old MIX system sound better than current LE system. If you dislike the 888 converters that much, you can always buy a 2-channel Apogee for monitoring.

and will be able to handle more of the newer plugins

002 handles zero plugins, as it doesn't have DSP. Whatever the host can process, it can process as many RTAS plugs in TDM software than it can in LE software. This comparison favors MIX system, if you think about it at all.

a mix system at this point in my opinion is a waste of money

If the list price for HD1 is 8 grand and you can get MIX core plus MIX-to-HD upgrade for 4 grand, then it's in fact worth 4 grand and definetely not "waste of money". Or if you consider 4 grand a pocket change, then you can waste those grands to my paypal account anytime. As many times as you like. PM me if you want details

[tomhartman]

Converters in 002 and 888 are on par. the difference is effectively zero. plus the 48bit TDM mixer sounds a lot better than the 32bit floating point mixer in LE -- and this makes the old MIX system sound better than current LE system. If you dislike the 888 converters that much, you can always buy a 2-channel Apogee for monitoring.

002 handles zero plugins, as it doesn't have DSP. Whatever the host can process, it can process as many RTAS plugs in TDM software than it can in LE software. This comparison favors MIX system, if you think about it at all.

If the list price for HD1 is 8 grand and you can get MIX core plus MIX-to-HD upgrade for 4 grand, then it's in fact worth 4 grand and definetely not "waste of money". Or if you consider 4 grand a pocket change, then you can waste those grands to my paypal account anytime. As many times as you like. PM me if you want details

Key word is LIST PRICE for HD1. Don't have to pay that much...

TH

[jimlongo]

I agree with JFreak on this, a MIX upgrade to a HD system can be worth about $4k in trade-in value.

It's the only reason I've held on to the MIX system I still have. 'Course I am trying to sell it using that rationale

[nikki-k]

Where are your bottlenecks?
What ver PT are you using now?
Do you plan on upgrading your computer in the next year or so?

[DodgeSongs]

The bottlenecks seem to come from using Sampletank, BFD, Bosendorfer, etc., in other words from streaming data from the hard drives. I'm using PT7 and yes, I likely will upgrade my computer within the next few months.

Sampletank isn't so bad, but BFD and Bosendorfer are all but unusable. Very frustrating.

[nikki-k]

The bottlenecks seem to come from using Sampletank, BFD, Bosendorfer, etc., in other words from streaming data from the hard drives. I'm using PT7 and yes, I likely will upgrade my computer within the next few months.

Sampletank isn't so bad, but BFD and Bosendorfer are all but unusable. Very frustrating.

OK- that sums it up IMO...

I would suggest NOT grabbing a Mix system, unless you have done the math, verified the math, and have a deal that would allow you to trade it in immediately and grab at least an HD1 Accel + 96 I/O. The HD Core PCIe would be an Accel Core, which is excellent. You could use this in a new Mac Pro, which *should* have tons of power, which is what you need for the native based plugins you are using. The HD Core would provide for your TDM mixer, ADC, and leave enough (if doing 2 DSP 64 voice) for maybe ReVibe, or some other TDM only plugs. 5.1 mixes, or working at 88.2k or higher might eat the whole Core card, leaving nothing for TDM plugs; but, IMO, you should enough nativ epower for just about anything you want to throw at it. Using a Mix system would mean using a computer that is qualified for it. A Mac Pro would be out of the question. Also, you wouldn't be getting ADC, and you would have to revert to using ver 6.4 PT TDM. Since you want to use plug-ins that are native only, and are power hungry (RAM, hard drive throughput, sperior internal bussing, etc) you would benefit most from (and the best bang for the buck, IMO) a Mac Pro.

I am using an HD2 Accel in a 2.66g Mac Pro with 4G RAM (3G ram would be enough...but with sample intensive stuff like BFD and such, more is always better!). I run Ivory at high performance settings- 10 layers, 72 voices, etc. I also use BFD in Ultra mode, and am using the Andy Johns kits, which can have up to 250 velocity layers, which gets pretty intensive. While BFD is not as...err...multi-cpu friendly as Ivory, it runs at a 256 buffer for me with a HUGE kit loaded up. I am also using Arturia Prophet V, and other stuff.

Caveats: Expense. Mac Pro plus HD Core plus 96 I/O is going to cost ya, especially when you add in RAM for the Mac. But, IMO, that is a system that is "safe" for at least 5 years, maybe more. Digi might do something with HD, so that is the real flaw in this plan IMO. Also, not everything is ported over for Intel based Macs yet. THIS is a real pain if you are running a pro studio. But, there is enough ported to make life cruise along pretty nicely, and more devs are coming around each week...NI and Arturia should have more done in the ocming weeks, Digi is moving fast, and URS and McDSP are done, and Sony have, or will have, theirs done as well. Massey plugs are done, Autotune is coming soon I believe, and Eventide announced theirs to be done soon as well. FXpansion has their line done I believe...so if you can find VST's tat are Mactel compato, you would be able to use them as well!

I would seriously consider grabbing the Mac Pro and stick with LE until you could afford a new or used PCIe HD Accel Core and a 96 I/O...the 192 I/O is nicer, but the 96 would do fine I think. With LE + MPT, you would have 48 tracks, and with the Mac Pro, tons of power. IMO, optimum is HD2 Accel + 192 I/O; passable is HD1 + 96I/O. If LE had ADC, I would be tempted to say it is a better solution than the HD1, but with the limited I/O, it might be an issue. Hard choices...