Who is using PTLE for composition?

[Okion]

I have complained about many issues related to composition and creationism using PTLE.

I have been told by Digi representatives that I am not in Digi’s PTLE target market.

So just how many more of you are there out there who use PTLE as their song and/or score writing tool?

[Roy Howell]

You can definitely count me in. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Vegadark]

i do. here is my computer composition history:

started out with a midi sound card and using a freeware app called lyra and changing stuff in some voyetra app. al on a 386sx 20MHz win3.11

then i moved on to use a program called modplug. it is a windows based tracker. i used it in conjunction with sound forge. i took this about as far as you can go with such tools. by the time i was ready for my next change i was not loading samples into the tracker anymore, but complete loops and phrases.

so the next step was acid music combined with sound forge. this lasted for a little while till i ran out of horse power with my laptop. it was an amd k6-2 333MHz with 32 megs of ram. so i decided to get a new computer. i got the gateway (that i now use for ptle) which is a 1.1GHz athlon w/ 512 meg ram. I realized i can now look for some other music creation setup because i put new hardware in the desktop.

so i stumbled upon the digi001. i checked it out for a while, then eventually picked one up.

i do not have a professional recording studio, but i am getting closer to that point on a daily basis and plan on having one in the future.

i do mostly use it for composing, but i do record other peoples projects as well.

[Okion]

Well for starters It would be nice to be able to see one midi track close enough to edit a performance, and still see what the rest fo the piece looks like.

It would be nice if as the piece progresses I didn’t have to keep mousing over to see where I am.

It would be nice if I could see more than 1 (actually 2 :note + 1:) elements of a performance at the same time, and be able to edit them all without switching what I was looking at.

It would be nice to be able to apply a particular groove or style to a performance without editing every note.(there are some things you can’t do with one pass). And I say this realizing that it will most likely still require some editing.

It would be nice to have a score view. And to be able to switch to and from key-roll view.

It would be nice to be able to apply delay (or the like) while a performance is still in midi (midi plug-ins).

It would be nice if there was a way to mix timings in different tracks. Have the drums at 4/4 and the lead in 3/4.

I could go on and on with more stuff like this.

I would like to be able to use reason to it’s full potential. (Rewire).
.
Looks like Stone has solved the sampling issue with a $2000 ka sampler. I admit I am getting fed up with the cross fades solution.

Then there is the more creative side, although sort of outside my original question. I want to be able to write my own plugins, both midi and audio. I want to be able to tinker and get the sounds and styles that I imagine. Not just the ones that someone else imagined (or emulated) for me.

I know you can’t do it all, all at once, but you have to be able to play, you need and open environment. (You can’t learn to play guitar if you don’t have access to one.)

Mike,,,is it? SK?
When you say sequences, you mean sequences of samples right? The Z8 doesn't sequence midi does it?

[pk_hat]

same here, depending in the project.
can you be specific about what you mean, how is ProTools hindering your creative process? just wanna know...

[Stone Knife]

For me the recent Logic dumpage pushed me into choosing an outboard sequencer.

It was also somewhat a decision based on the Spectrasonics/Ilio company's inability to get their stuff to work within RTAS for Windows.

I am keeping the 001, and I must have Spectrasonic's samples and the ability to use their 'Groove Control" What is the answer that ties all these things together?

The one I came up with is the AKAI Z8.

They have this USB interface that allows you to drag and drop files into (and out of) the Z8's 20 Gig hard drive from (and to) your computer's hard drives;

Plus it uses a software interface called ak.Sys, which makes your computer screen the Z8's virtual control panel.

This way, it's keeping the processing, sequencing and sample storage and retrieval outside the computer's CPU and local hard drive, allowing PT to do what it is designed to do: record and edit.

Ak.Sys is cross-platform compatible (or the Z8 is entirely computer independant if need be) it doesn't matter who switches to XP, OSX, Apple, Mac, or "calling all cars".

This arrangement allows using the PT's simplistic MIDI capabilities to record the MIDI data or straight bounced-out audio, completely avoiding the Direct Connect gap and any other software sequencing incompatibilities such as VST or RTAS hassles.

Finally, the audio product you've created in PT can be dragged-and-dropped back into the Z8 and used as other sequence pieces, and your computer's CD-ROM becomes the Z8's CD-ROM, too.

Just one solution, thanks to the 'platform wars'.

[Okion]

So that's it ey?

I guess I am really not in the target market.

[pk_hat]

Originally posted by Okion:
So that's it ey?

I guess I am really not in the target market.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess so....

maybe it's just me and my opinion will seem harsh, but it seems like you're asking for a lot here. Everyone's trippin' out on the fact that there's not much in the way of RTAS for Windows when we know quite well that it's on the way (and you all can guess why it's on the way)

Whatever happened to creative recording, doing the most with what you have? Using that second soundcard and routing to the 001 for your Reason, Kontakt or for whatever other reasons.
Seems like we want instant gratification for everything these days. Like this is some kind of "instant lotto scratch n' produce a hit" kind of situation....

External sequencing because Ilio's new groove-plugin-of-the-day isn't ready for PC yet...oh my.
Nothing agains external sequencer, all the better if it works for you becuase that's really all that matter, but to make it sound like this was your act of rebellion against ProTools, just seems...well, a bit silly (I may have misinterpreted btw, so feel free to correct me)

And me, I'm not one of those analog old-timer purists, not at all, I embrace all this new technology, but geez, put a little work and some heart & soul in your productions!

What's this crap about having one time signature on drums and not being able to change it for the lead at the snap of a finger, come on!!! Of course you can change the time signature as many times as you want!

Time compression/expansion works beautifully once you get familiar with it, and what's wrong with a little editing here and there, chopping up a loop and re-arranging it, that's half the fun!

anyways, sorry Okion and all the others, but this has me really wondering who will be the innovative producers of years to come. think about it in depth for a moment, perhaps you'll see where I'm coming from and realise why I replied in this manner (didn't mean to sound offensive), but here we are on the PT forum, a program that 90% of the producers and engineers we admire are using, and we're seemingly removing ourselves from the art of recording in favor of a 'just add water' working environment.

Yeah, Cubase SX looks like a great program that could answer all your needs. In this case, just start using it.

pk

[Roy Howell]

Originally posted by Okion:

It would be nice if as the piece progresses I didn’t have to keep mousing over to see where I am.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okion,
Maybe you're talking about something else, but do you know you can set it to scroll along with 'Operations/Scroll options/Page scroll during playback'?
I definitely agree with pk's main point. First, I have no problem editing Midi whatsoever with what PT offers. There may be some preferable options in other programs, I don't know. But, honestly, I have no problem working with what is here. I have done both simple and highly intricate editing with PT now, both Audio and Midi, and I find it hard to believe that you may be doing anything too much more in depth. But, all the tools are there to create whatever one can imagine.

I saw an amazing video recently that some of you may have seen, called 'the drum machine'. It is a mesmerizing synchronization of audio and video together. You see what appears to be a massive watch-like percussion machine, with gears turning and mechanical sticks playing all types of percussive instruments. Truly amazing.
Well, (hopefully you have or will see it), the guy who put it together is interviewed, and more impressive to me than the video itself is what he said. He said something like, 'I'm not one of these guys who has to have all the very latest tech stuff on the market. I believe you work with what you have before you.' He then gave some simple examples, but his point was clear.
I feel the same way. Let's see what we can do with what we have first, and if we ultimately come up against a wall, then we need more 'stuff'.
Personally, I'm always on the hunt for new sounds.

~Roy

[Okion]

Pk no rebellion here, in fact I didn't plan on giving my opinion in that way, till you asked.

I just didn't believe that I wasn't in the "target market" and I wanted to see if it was the case.

From the response I feel that in fact I am not.

I do plan on cross-gading to some other product which is more focused on composition than PTLE and hopefully focused on recording enough to get the job done. If not, I will still have PTLE.

I have several works in progress at the moment, and I don’t think I will be giving them up or starting over or anything.

I had planned on just going with logic, which seemed to be a real cross market platform. I think Sonar and SX are trying to be. But Digi is still focused on recording, not composing.

There is nothing wrong with that. (And here is where a bit of an attitude comes in) I just wish they had been up-front about that -BEFORE- they sold me the product.