So logic/motu support is dead forever ?

[tigerman]

I'm using logic tdm since 1995.

so my workflow is just dead ?
i have upgraded to a mac pro and upgraded hd2 pci to hd2 pcie
on the 8.0.3 pre release there was no support for legacy cards, so i can't use that.
on the 8.0.3 you put legacy support back but you abandon logic, so again i can't use that aswell.

Basically i had to find a 10.5.x installation disk for this machine that was quite hard as all the retail leopard doesn't boot on this mac, i had to find the installation dvd provided with this mac before snow leopard was out.

so basically i've just spent a considerable amount of money to be again stuck with 10.5.8 and pt 8.0.1.

First of all digi should advise of that before, cause if i knew before i will arrange my upgrade in another way.

Also they should at least do a last PT release that makes us able to go to snow leopard, this is really the worst decision they have made since a long time, it really hurts the way i work, and now i'm in a middle of a decision, where do i go next? how can i start project with this setup knowing already that i will not be able to re-open that in a near future?

start using pro-tools? maybe
abandoning all tdm stuff ? maybe
use both togheter? maybe

is it really so time consuming for digidesign keep that support ? it just needs some fixes, they do not have time for that? no interests? we are a few with logic tdm, but our money are the same of the other customers, or not ?

really upset, really!!

[gsilbers]

do u really need TDM nowadays that computer power is as good as TDM hardware?

u can get an RME interface and a mac pro and use logic..... only downside is the tdm plugs which a lot com in AU form.

u can still use your TDM hardware as a pro tools mixer in another computer.
everything out form logic in the rme would go to pro tools in another system.
but u dont use PT

logic tdm support has been very crappy for many poeple. it must cost digi some dough to keep that up.

or they must have a good reason to drop it cause if it makes them money they shure wouldnt do it.

but it indeed sucks. at the same time, i think u would be pleased with an interface like RME.

[tonwurm]

Motu DP 7.1 does support PT 8.0.3, you only have to install DP AFTER PT

so it seems to be not a big thing (instead of what we heard from digi)...

btw:
I was a logic user from the first hour in the beginning of the 90´s and from 1998 on I worked with logic as a DAE-front for the PT hardware. I never worked with PT. I year ago I left logic behind (because of lack in support by apple) and went over to PT- it has been a steep learning curve, but now I can say that this was the best decision I could make.

Now I only use logic for some notation or to open 'old' projects

[tripit]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

do u really need TDM nowadays that computer power is as good as TDM hardware?

There are still plenty of good reasons to use TDM. Latency being the main one. When you are multi tracking live musicians, punching etc, that is where TDM makes the biggest difference.

The main reason why I use DP along with PT is that PT is still very immature as a professional midi app.

As for Logic, I used it in version 3 and 4, and the TDM implementation has always been really funky. DP's DAE use on the other hand, has been straight forward and much better IMHO. MOTU did drop the ball after DAE 6 and fell behind, but they have worked to bring it back and it's pretty much there now in DP7.1. (abet a few minor issues)

Logic hasn't made much progress at all with DAE support. I'm happy I left Logic, I think DP is superior in many ways. PT is getting better, but again, the midi still needs a lot of improvement.

[tigerman]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

do u really need TDM nowadays that computer power is as good as TDM hardware?

u can get an RME interface and a mac pro and use logic..... only downside is the tdm plugs which a lot com in AU form.

u can still use your TDM hardware as a pro tools mixer in another computer.
everything out form logic in the rme would go to pro tools in another system.
but u dont use PT

logic tdm support has been very crappy for many poeple. it must cost digi some dough to keep that up.

or they must have a good reason to drop it cause if it makes them money they shure wouldnt do it.

but it indeed sucks. at the same time, i think u would be pleased with an interface like RME.

i already own RME fireface 400, i have also motu pci 424 with 2x 2408

i use rme for the laptop, while motu as a bridge from core audio to tdm, i had also the old rme pci model with pcmcia so i know what you mean when you say i will enjoy an rme.

by the way that's not the point, i need t use tdm, i own many plug-ins, and they are NOT available as audio unit, i loved to work inside 1 program only, so i just save once and i have everything in it.

we all know logic tdm suppport is going worst at every release, many problems, graphic issues, plenty of bugs.. , direct tdm is gone.. etc...

so i have just to think about a new direction.
the fact is that i don't want to abandon logic, as i'm really fast on it and i know it in every aspect.

By the way last week i've given pro-tools a chance, i took 10 minutes only to undertstand how to make automations, but after i've understood i have to admit that regarding audio and automations it's a lot superior than logic, starting from automation resolution, that is at full resolution for all plug-ins.

Logic on its side has many good proprietary plug-in aswell, his midi is fantastic and, at least for me, it let me able to work very very fast..

I would like to try a new workflow, using both togheter, so i will get the best of both, i'll use pt as mixer and audio track player, and logic for all the rest, i just have to find a way to sync them with sample accuracy and i'll give it a try.

i don't care about latency, i care mainly about tdm plug-ins, i don't wanna lose them.

I was a logic user from the first hour in the beginning of the 90´s and from 1998 on I worked with logic as a DAE-front for the PT hardware. I never worked with PT. I year ago I left logic behind (because of lack in support by apple) and went over to PT- it has been a steep learning curve, but now I can say that this was the best decision I could make.

that's a good news, btw i don't want to lose logic, if i start using both togheter i will learn pro-tools in the meantime and i can still work fast and well with logic.
Hope i'll get a working solution, else we will see, i'm more inclined to abandon protools hardware at the moment if i have to choose.

[gsilbers]

pro tools 8 midi is as good as logic imo. only because they copied everything good logic has.

except of course for the transformer tool and other heavy midi environment stuff that most of us dont use or there are work arounds.

i think u should give PT 8 a chance.. you can edit several channels of midi cc in one screen.. thats cool. DP does it too but not logic. not a biggie but just small stuff. notation is good.
i think the biggest issue would be the track layout and getting used to it which will happen with time. its a mattter of starting a project on it and get experience.

as for the plugins, yes, logic has a few good ones but there a lot of the same ones out there that are not the heavy hitters, like camel audio, audio damage,
airwindows plugins, soundhack etc info on kvr.

[tonwurm]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

...i think u should give PT 8 a chance.. you can edit several channels of midi cc in one screen.. thats cool. DP does it too but not logic...

in logic you can do this in a PERFECT way with the hyper-editor

with the hyper-editor you can open a window that shows automatically all currently used cc´s in a track or region, every one in a single row - in DP or PT you have to define them manually

what I permanently and daily miss in PT is the ability to convert an incoming cc to another cc-number, f.e. exppression cc 11 to volume cc 7 (now I do this with midi-pipe, a freeware)

and I´m really missing a midi-monitor display that shows me explicit what´s coming in from my controller keyboard or external synth-expander

little things of course, but sometimes it´s the sum of them which can make a workflow flow

if digi extends the midi-part and improves rtas-performance, then I´ll never look back at logic

there´s hope !

[tigerman]

Originally Posted by tonwurm

in logic you can do this in a PERFECT way with the hyper-editor

with the hyper-editor you can open a window that shows automatically all currently used cc´s in a track or region, every one in a single row - in DP or PT you have to define them manually

what I permanently and daily miss in PT is the ability to convert an incoming cc to another cc-number, f.e. exppression cc 11 to volume cc 7 (now I do this with midi-pipe, a freeware)

and I´m really missing a midi-monitor display that shows me explicit what´s coming in from my controller keyboard or external synth-expander

little things of course, but sometimes it´s the sum of them which can make a workflow flow

if digi extends the midi-part and improves rtas-performance, then I´ll never look back at logic

there´s hope !

well i don't call a midi monitor a "little" thing to be honest
so in pt is not possible to change a midi cc number ? there's not even a event list ?
we're already starting with the wrong feet.
and i DO use transformers sometimes, to make randoms expecially, or to do special operations to midi cc, like quantizing values, max value limiter or min value limiter, or scale....
i've used trasnformer also for real time operations, for example to be able to play notes on an electron tom (that was controller by a midi cc).

also i have logic control, i should upgrade it to make it HUI compatible else is quite useless if i switch to pt.

I have a question:
Does RTAS plug-ins have midi out ability?
I mean if i put a reaktor that produces midi out (eg. sequencer) is it possible to control another plug-in ?
in logic i have to use bidule for that, in pt is possible? bidule is not rtas and afaik it doesn't works with fxpansion rtas wrapper....

To be more precise rtas adapter has not been updated since ages so it has some issue with pt8...

i still bellieve taht a combnined system with both running togheter is the best option.
does anyone has tried midi sync them with some virtual midi devices, like iptomidi or similar ?

[tonwurm]

Originally Posted by tigerman

...so in pt is not possible to change a midi cc number ? there's not even a event list ?

sure thats possible and there´s an event list too, though I still prefer logic one´s - there you can select a range of events and change their values together in one step easily by mouse-dragging

but all that comes AFTER recording, in logic you can manipulate incoming midi-events in realtime in any way you want - there are no limits

Originally Posted by tigerman

...and i DO use transformers sometimes, to make randoms expecially, or to do special operations to midi cc, like quantizing values, max value limiter or min value limiter, or scale....
i've used trasnformer also for real time operations, for example to be able to play notes on an electron tom (that was controller by a midi cc)...

yes -transformers, exactly what you describe is that what I was used to do in logic and missing now hardly in PT

Originally Posted by tigerman

...I have a question:
Does RTAS plug-ins have midi out ability?...

...i still bellieve taht a combnined system with both running togheter is the best option.
does anyone has tried midi sync them with some virtual midi devices, like iptomidi or similar ?

so far I know rtas hasn´t the ability to send midi outside


syncing PT with the outside world can be done in several ways, if you make a search - there are several threads here in the DUC which describe that extensively. f.e. yery interesting seems to be the new vienna ensemble