Roland V-Drums - Which to buy?

[GuitarSlinger]

Hi All,

I'm looking into buying an edrum kit to practice and record both demos and release-quality drums with. I'm on PT LE 7.4 and thinking to export the e-drum midi into PT and use Superior Drummer (also on my shopping list) for all sounds.

So I have some questions I hope you can advise on:

1. Rubber or mesh heads. Your opinions on playability and any effect on realism? Is this a factor?

2. Some friends have wondered if real cymbals should be used for release quality recordings. Thoughts on the use of samples?

3. Do the more expensive kits make for better tracking or just better sounds? Or what?

Kitwise, I've been using DFH via Kontakt for years (entering with a keyboard or drawing midi) and like having so many cymbals to use. I also want 4 toms but most edrums seem to be 3 and I need to buy an additional one.

I'd like to spend about $1500 for the edrums and I know there are two Roland kits about that price. However, if it's really worth it, I can go up but don't really want to!

BTW I saw a review online that said Superior Drums were a memory issue in PTLE. True? I have 3 gig.

P.S. I'm not a drummer so my real drummer will likely be doing the "release quality" performances.

I appreciate any input. Thanks!

[BradLyons]

When it comes to electronic drums, the typical phrase of "the more you spend, the better you get" holds true. When it comes to the various kits out there, really only the Roland kits have a feel that is responsive, quiet, and feel more like real drums providing we're talking the mesh heads. When it comes to rubber pads, the drums don't play the same. Instead of letting your wrist work for you---you're working the pad. It's like having hammers trying to hit a nail instead of playing the kit. In other words you know how you have that bounce back and feel? Well with rubber pads, that goes away. You might be surprised to learn that Roland is the largest drum company in the world....that's right, a company that makes NO acoustic drums or percussion instruments is the largest in the world, and it's all because of their VDrum line. The more expensive kits DO have better sounds....but more importantly they have a more realistic feel in the drums and the cymbals. Take the V-Cymbals....you play through the cymbal, not hit a pad that is stationary. Since you have a computer-based system, I'd not worry so much about the sounds as even something EZ Drummer works incredibly well and sounds good!!

So let me ask this...HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO YOU TO HAVE A KIT THAT PLAYS more like real drums v/s HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO STAY AT $1500?

[albee1952]

I started with a Roland Session kit which was all rubber pads. Over time, I upgraded the snare to a PD120 and then the kick to a KD120 and there really is no comparison(the rubber pads suck and all drummers hate them). AT this point I have dumped all the rubber pads(saved 1 for a cowbell sound) and all the cymbal pads for Alesis Surge triggers. I didn't mind the rubber pads that much, but I am NOT a drummer. If $1500 is all you can spend, I would look at a used TD10 kit or check out the Alesis DM Pro kit with Surge Cymbals. That uses 8" drum heads with foam underneath so it feels a little better than rubber(and is in your price range). I highly recommend the Surge Cymbals as they are basically real cymbals coated in a clear material to deaden them. As to your question about real cymbals, my favorite setup(with a real drummer) is real cymbals and hat with 3 mics(it seems to add "air" to the whole recording). But samples sound fine(less nuance). I use both ezdrummer AND Superior Drummer and have no issues with either. The only glitch I find in the whole process is, I can't play a choked crash(with triggers). The solution is to either move the midi note to the correct note, or use a real crash.

[GuitarSlinger]

Thanks for the replies. As I said I can go up in price.

So that's 2 votes for mesh. Now my question, is a $2500 mesh kit better than a $1500 mesh kit? $3200 kit better than the $2500? These are the prices I see out there for different versions of the kit. The module seems to be the main difference, but should I care in my case (using other sounds)?

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Also check out the Yamaha kits... our drummers have enjoyed playing the DTXtremeIII Special (they preferred the rubber to the mesh heads actually)... and the hat is very good.

Yamaha have also introduced new quieter and even more responsive heads at NAMM:

http://www.yamaha.com/drums/drumprod...5&CTID=5040587

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM9l0cMn5jo

Cheers,

Rail

[x9blade]

i've had a td 20 for a few years now upgraded from a td 6 which i used at the time to trigger reason drumkits.

the td 20 and i have a love hate relationship. on paper it sounds like a win win combination. mesh heads/silent realistic hi hat, substantial size.etc etc. ymmv but for me, the pads in trying to be too realistic are prone to being flaky at times. hitting at full force sometimes does not produce a full force sound. the hi hat is for sure its weak link. the actual mechanism is very lo tec and also prone to a whole lot of wierdness at times especially with half open hihat sounds

the expansion card for the unit made things a bit better for sure but overall in my opinion the sounds are dated. at times very difficult to fit in a mix when recording with them. live gigging when they are cranking through a pa, they seem to be ok but, i have only done that one or 2 times since i've had them.

i hate to admit, i also think i got better results with the hard rubber pads. there was no unknown with them. hit it hard get a hard sound.hit soft and get a soft sound,less mistriggering .

remember, the td20 is a few years old now. i recently spent some time in a music store with the td9 and also the td20. i enjoyed the td 9 more than the 20, newer sounds on the 9

ymmv x10

[reycantong]

I currently use Roland TD9kx with Superior Drummer. I can do everything (cymbal chokes, ghost notes, sidesticks, rim shots, cymbal bell, anything you can do on an acoustic drum).

I got this one for the reason that I have a small room. If I have a bigger room, I'll get the TD20. But for me, the module is the only difference between the TD9kx and TD20. And I'm not a "factory module" user. I prefer drum vsts.

[BradLyons]

Originally Posted by GuitarSlinger

Thanks for the replies. As I said I can go up in price.

So that's 2 votes for mesh. Now my question, is a $2500 mesh kit better than a $1500 mesh kit? $3200 kit better than the $2500? These are the prices I see out there for different versions of the kit. The module seems to be the main difference, but should I care in my case (using other sounds)?

Well that's where the problem lies..... the more you spend the better hardware you get in terms of the realism of the pads, but also the better module you receive. To save money on buying a module with lesser features/sounds that you don't need...you're also buying a lower level kit. Now if you were to buy this piece by piece to eliminate the drum brain, it really doesn't save you any money--in fact it can cost more (I've looked at this for my own clients many ways and times). I do believe that Roland makes the best hardware, that's why they are the biggest and largest drum company in the world even though they build ZERO acoustic drums. The TD20 kit is ideal---but it's also $7k :)

I'd suggest to consider looking at the TD9SX as a place to start but if you can manage to do the TD12SV, you'll be happy two years from now as opposed to just today. Being that you're not a drummer the rubber pads may not be a big deal to you but an actual drummer sitting down to play them will be thrown WAY off! It's going to come down to what you want, what you're willing to settle for, and how much damage you'll allow to be done to your wallet. While that's true in many cases, it is especially true on this topic.

[GuitarSlinger]

Originally Posted by BradLyons

I'd suggest to consider looking at the TD9SX as a place to start but if you can manage to do the TD12SV, you'll be happy two years from now as opposed to just today.

Is that because the TD12 is newer all around and won't be "dated" as quickly?

I saw on another forum an idea that more expensive mesh pads are more sensitive to nuance and have more zones (might be wrong word) to give more variety of sound. True?

[jjtarnow]

I assembled what most drummers that come to my studio feel is a really great kit. You can pick up 1-3 year old modules and heads for 60-70% off new although I do think the newer cymbals are much better than the older Roland stuff. I agree with one of the earlier posts on this thread..buy the best you can afford but buy used. I love the mesh kits and I bought the TD20 module used...it's great. It seems illogical to buy something used that is meant to be hit (hard) but the higher quality Roland stuff is built really well and lasts. One other piece of advice I got from a local pro....dump the lame stands they come with and buy a Pearl aluminum drum stand with real drum hardware. It's immensely more stable and doesn't cost too much. I think you should be able to get it all done for $1500-1800...good luck.