compressing to tape? 003

[thibault]

So I've decided that the first piece of outboard gear I'll be purchasing for my 003 will be a compressor simply because it's been a pain trying to get an even level to tape (bass/vocals) and I'm just wondering how to make the connections.(Clearly the analogue I/O's would be fine if I were using it as an insert). I'm sure there is a very simple answer for this, but I'm new to this and just curious if the signal has to pass through the pre's/AD converters first. Thanks.

[rqstudio]

Consider a 2 channel pre with compression and possibly EQ. I use a JoeMeek Twin Q and by going into the 003's SPDIF not only bypasses the 003 pre's and converters, it gives you two extra inputs! Give yourself a lot of time to play and to get used to this kind of device because anything you do will be printed and you can not go back!

[thibault]

But I suppose in that case I'd also need converters. I'm assuming there's no way to plug into a mic input (1-4), use the stock pre's and converters and then somehow send the signal to an outboard compressor and then into PT?

[Naagzh]

So I've decided that the first piece of outboard gear I'll be purchasing for my 003 will be a compressor simply because it's been a pain trying to get an even level to tape (bass/vocals) and I'm just wondering how to make the connections.(Clearly the analogue I/O's would be fine if I were using it as an insert). I'm sure there is a very simple answer for this, but I'm new to this and just curious if the signal has to pass through the pre's/AD converters first. Thanks.

To clarify on the signal flow -- the mic level signal first gets amplified by a mic pre, and is elevated to a line-level signal. Then, the line-level signal passes to the A/D converter. The mic pre/line input and A/D converter are two different stages, although on 003 inputs 1-8, this connection is hard-wired together, so any signal passing though these channels immediately hits the 003 A/D converters afterword.

If you wanted to compress a signal after it's been converted to digital, you would send it through one of the 003's outputs (convert the signal back to analog by the D/A converter), connect it to the input on the compressor, and then plug the output of the compressor back into the 003 via a line-level input (and convert it back to digital). But the round trip from digital to analog to compressor to digital would degrade your signal, and the compression would likely not be worth the cost of sonic quality.

But desiring an even level "to tape" doesn't necessarily mean you NEED an outboard compressor. With 16 bit systems (like ADAT), the smaller dynamic range and the (relatively) high noise floor made compression "on the way in" a good idea, in order to overcome these factors, and capture a quiet, detailed recording.

The same applied for analog tape, except that instead of compressors, engineers often recorded "hot" signals (which the tape naturally compressed on its own), resulting in the fat and warm character that is emulated today by plug-ins (Analog Channel, Reel Tape, Massey TapeHead, etc.).

Nowadays, though, all systems are 24 bit, which has more than enough dynamic range, and a seriously low noise floor (much lower than 16 bit systems and most analog tape machines!). Compressing "on the way in" isn't wrong to do, but it's entirely feasible to compress after the signal has been made digital (by the A/D converter) with a plug-in.

You will hear plenty about how hardware compressors are SO awesome around here. I won't argue those opinions, however, my point is that it's possible to accomplish your goal without one.

If you'd like to hear what a plug-in compressor will do without placing it directly on the track, try this: Create a mono audio track, and set its output to an available buss (say buss 1). Now, create a mono aux track, and set its INPUT to that same buss (buss 1). Now whatever signal is on your mono audio track will flow to your aux track. Place a plug-in compressor on the AUX track, and tweak to taste (the vocal comp and vocal levelor presets are good starting points). Now, when you record to your AUDIO track, you can SEE the input level on your AUDIO track (and ensure you don't hit the red), but you will HEAR the compressed signal coming from your AUX track. Don't forget, though, to check the uncompressed signal often, especially with vocals, as compressing can sometimes subdue plosives, lip smacks, heavy breathing, etc.

To sum it up, don't worry so much about even levels, just compress after the fact with plug-in. Should you one day desire a cool outboard compressor, choose it for its sonic character. Also, (and no offense to your clients) great singers and bass players naturally compress themselves through good technique. You can even see the proof in the waveforms.

[Kris75]

Hardware inserts are needed if you want to use the 003 mic pres. Since there isn't any, you can use an insert in PT but the latency is too great IMO. Another option is to record at low buffers and use a compressor on the insert (DYN III, ect).

The best option is learning to get proper levels with recording and mic technique. If the bass is peaking in some parts and too low in others, it usually means the bass player is hitting the strings to hard. The strings "frap out" on the frets and lose their ring. That or the string is pressed into the pickup and goes "Crak"! An evenly played bass is KEY to getting a fat tone.

Same goes for singing. Get closer on quiet parts. Either turn your head slightly to the side or back up for the louder parts.

When good technique is employed, compression sounds better and a lot more natural, while still achieving the desired "effect"

Of course if you are recording some one other than yourself and they won't take the advice, compress the snot out of it!

[rqstudio]

Hey Kris75, hows Vancouver? If John McSame gets elected I may be coming to pay you a visit.
While these mic and playing technique's are always valuable, you can get a stronger, punchier, more professional sounding performance by adding a small amount of compression before the pre. And lets face it, the pre's and converters are not all that great on the M-boxes. As I mentioned earlier in this post, the box I'm using makes it easier for me to get a good sounding mix, and no, you don't need additional converters. Anything with a SPDIF out is going to have a converter! So in my opinion you're getting 6 things for your money. A little EQ, a little compression, a better clock, a better converter and two additional inputs!

[Kris75]

RG, What about latency? With the Joe Meek you would still have to make 2 conversions would you not? One to go into the comp/eq and one to go out. How do you get around this? I am curious because I agree with you that Compression before pre is a good idea. I use it all the time. Only on a large format console with inserts. I just don't think that a compressor is a life saver for poorly played dynamics or improper mic technique.

I have never tried using SPDIF for that purpose. I am very interested in it though.

Who is John McSame? LOL

Thanks for your reply.

[rqstudio]

You shouldn't experience any latency on the 003 unless you're going through lots of plugs first. Also I do not bus it in and out of my analog board, units like this will have one or two analog inputs for mic or line and convert within then go to the 003 directly. The SPDIF in on the 003 is for digital material and doesn't get converted again. I always thought that Digi had rather dull pre's (and or converters) and have set my JoeMeek up for vocals adding just a little sparkle and compression. This allows me to get the softer passages a tad louder without clipping creating a better performances and less work when mixing. It would also be very good for a kick and snare during a live drum session. Again, use it sparingly.

[thibault]

So if I'm understanding all of this correctly then there'd be no way to compress before PT on channels 1-4 since you can't compress a mic level signal and since there are no insert outs after the pre's and before PT, I could compress before PT on channels 5-8 if it were:

(outboard pre-compressor-(line in 5-8)-003's AD convertor etc.)

or I could use the SPDIF/E or SPDIF/O or ADAT:

(outboard pre-compressor-ouboard convertor-lightpipe in or SPDIF/E in.)

Have I got the 003's signal flow worked out here?

Thanks for your help guys.