MASTERING: Above digital zero...

[Tweakhead]

Well, isn't this exactly what I said? the actual samples will not go over 0dBfs, but the represented waveform may exceed fullscale That's what popp's talking about.

What do you mean by the "represented waveform"?
Are you simply talking about the graphical representation in the Edit Window? Or the recreated analog signal from the DA converters?

He is not talking about analog signals or visual waveforms. The thread is entitled "Mastering: Above digital zero".

DIGITAL ZERO.

Stop making excuses for the guy, even if you feel sorry for him.

[popps]

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]

Well, isn't this exactly what I said? the actual samples will not go over 0dBfs, but the represented waveform may exceed fullscale That's what popp's talking about.

Exactly, and going "above digital zero" is basically mastering with a hard zero ceiling (in Pro Tools, for instance)... and adding volume to the bounced file in whatever app.

So, perhaps pushing above digital zero wasn't the right language, but the point remains... people are getting program material into the red.

i.e... if you leave your L2 output at zero... you'll see no red on your master fader. (In PT.) If you push up your fader, you're seeing red.

My point (despite the funny hissy fit the kid earlier threw) was that people are getting up into the red, in whatever means they choose. I was just wondering if anyone had experience with what consumer CD players can handle, as people are clearly pushing the boundaries.

[popps]

[QUOTE]

Well, isn't this exactly what I said? [b]
Stop making excuses for the guy, even if you feel sorry for him.

Wow, dude. You need to get out of your mom's basement and get some sunlight... maybe talk to a girl or something.

That's some serious pent-up anger. This stuff honestly makes you that hateful? Someone used some language you deemed incorrect on a friggin' message board and you're about to break into tears?

Seriously. Step away from the computer and maybe go seek out a life.

Wow.

[Tweakhead]

You are completely reading the wrong tone in my replies.

You are asking questions about a very precise technical subject, and you obviously do not like being given the truth - as it has exposed your limited understanding of the subject.

You seem to be the one throwing hissy fits and getting emotional about what you think you understand on this subject. If you don't like people giving you accurate answers, then don't ask questions.

[popps]

You seem to be the one throwing hissy fits and getting emotional about what you think you understand on this subject. If you don't like people giving you accurate answers, then don't ask questions.

LOL

You've given NO answers. You argued about semantics, then someone else tried to explain the question to you... and then you attacked them, too.

Seriously, just admit that you have nothing to offer and run along. You clearly don't want to understand the question. You're too busy trying to impress people with name-calling and being willfully ignorant.

If it's so painful for you, why do you keep posting? If you're so above it... why are you here?

Ahhh... a bit of a paradox, isn't it.

I predict that you keep posting here, despite being so above it all.

[Tweakhead]

Oh, wait a minute..... I get it now.

There are no colleagues asserting this. It was you that I called a moron in the first reply.

That's why you are all upset.

OK. It all makes sense.

In that case I apologise for upsetting you.

[jimlongo]

My understanding is that even though digital cannot possibly go above 0db, the reconstructed waveform theoretically can, but most DAs (especially consumer ones) cannot reproduce that without distorting.

It's the result of Brick-Wall-Limiting-it-to-Death with a ceiling of 0DB. You end up with a technically okay master that cannot be played back without distortion.

It's not a practice you want to try to emulate.

The more crushed your master, the more you need to back the ceiling down.
Perhaps to -1.5 or -2db.

[Ru_C]

wow..a digital ceiling bitchfight ! Handbags & D/A converters at dawn ladies !

[popps]

Oh, wait a minute..... I get it now.

There are no colleagues asserting this. It was you that I called a moron in the first reply.

That's why you are all upset.

OK. It all makes sense.

]



Yep, you just keep on posting.

So, to recap... you're too cool, way too above this, way too technically advanced... yet you keep posting here and keep calling people names.

As for your original ignorant response, maybe you should read it again. You called people "morons" before even taking a moment to understand where the question was coming from.

So, don't be surprised when people respond to you like the loser in mom's basement that you are.

O.K... now, keep on posting here. I mean, you're too cool for it, yet... you oddly choose to post your drivel.

Go ahead... wow us with more brilliance... .

[popps]

My understanding is that even though digital cannot possibly go above 0db, the reconstructed waveform theoretically can, but most DAs (especially consumer ones) cannot reproduce that without distorting.

It's the result of Brick-Wall-Limiting-it-to-Death with a ceiling of 0DB. You end up with a technically okay master that cannot be played back without distortion.

It's not a practice you want to try to emulate.

The more crushed your master, the more you need to back the ceiling down.
Perhaps to -1.5 or -2db.

Agree. I've long been of a more conservative opinion as well. I think where people are making their volume adjustments is in post-bounce apps. For instance, if people are mastering to a -1.0 hard out ceiling in Pro Tools... and then import into Peak or Jam (for instance) ... and add 2 DB to the file. Yes, the original master was under zero, but using whatever language you want to use... enough loudness (gain) has been added that if you brought that adjusted file back into PT... it would register as in the red. (Again, perhaps "above zero" not being the proper language, but the effect is the same.) I know this practice goes on in a number of ways and my original thought was with regards to consumer (or prosumer) gear and the limitations. (Clipping, etc.)

In other words, the old train of thought was that if you saw red in Masterlist (for example) ... you'd hear clipping in your CD.

I think people (pros and otherwise) are pushing those limits. I was just curious as to an experience anyone had in particular with the CD playback gear itself.