Bounce to Disk or to a Pair of Open Tracks?

[tomhartman]

I've read a few threads lately that speak of getting better final mix quality by NOT bouncing to disk.

How would you do this and is it true?

Would I just send the master fader output to a stereo track instead of out the 2mx?

Thanks for any thoughts on this

[Jacko2002]

I don't bounce.Instead I record onto separate stereo track,patching digital output of my Apogee interface into input via AES EBU cable.

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jacko:
I don't bounce.Instead I record onto separate stereo track,patching digital output of my Apogee interface into input via AES EBU cable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But then you still have to EXPORT the audio files and do a conversion anyway if you want in a stereo 16 bit format for doing a CD....so what's the difference??[/LIST]

[Mark Wheaton]

It is easy to record to stereo tracks internally with no external conversion.
Route your tracks to a Bus pair
(13-14 for instance).
Create an Aux track with the input on the same bus pair(13-14)
and the output to another bus pair(15-16). Then put any output plugins, dither etc. on this aux.
Create a Stereo Audio Track with input on the same bus as the aux Output (15-16).
Make the output of this any pair of Audio outputs.
Then put this track in record and roll.
If you do not need plugins, then bypass the aux track and go direct via bus to the other stereo audio track.
Using this with Powr Dither allows mixing a 24 bit session to tracks that play in the 24 bit session but also function as 16 bit so you can burn a CD from the file created. I usually allocate a seperate folder for this mix track so I can easily find my mixes.

If any experts out there have comments on why this method is a bad idea let me know, but I find that I get better results with more assured levels this way.
Plus I can verify the finished track with out reimporting.
Also, If the levels on the playback pin your meters, bring down the mix track audio level to some consistant amount and you can then make sure your mixes are in the same ballpark level wise.
On complex mixes where I am using my analog mixer for EQ and other things, I simply route the mix output bus to a pair of Pro Tools inputs and use the same Aux and Audio track pair. (Aux input here is whatever I/O pair is connected to the boards stereo output bus.)
I route the Output of the mix track to the Tape Return on my board. In essence I am mixing to Pro Tools just as I would to a 2 track or DAT, listening to the return. I actually have a pair of my 888 I/O dedicated to the Tape A I/O on my board. I sacrifice one pair of I/O for mixing.

[carlone]

Interesting Mark - I'll have to give your method a try. I find that I get better results by using an external CD burner and just capturing the analog outputs from my interface.

I have the HHB but a friend uses the masterlink with great results. Could just be me but it sure seems like the CD's are not only louder but also warmer sounding.

[tomhartman]

" posted March 14, 2002 09:40 AM *** **** ** ** **
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It is easy to record to stereo tracks internally with no external conversion.
Route your tracks to a Bus pair
(13-14 for instance).
Create an Aux track with the input on the same bus pair(13-14)
and the output to another bus pair(15-16). Then put any output plugins, dither etc. on this aux.
Create a Stereo Audio Track with input on the same bus as the aux Output (15-16).
Make the output of this any pair of Audio outputs.
Then put this track in record and roll.
If you do not need plugins, then bypass the aux track and go direct via bus to the other stereo audio track.
Using this with Powr Dither allows mixing a 24 bit session to tracks that play in the 24 bit session but also function as 16 bit so you can burn a CD from the file created. I usually allocate a seperate folder for this mix track so I can easily find my mixes."

Mark, I'm confused. If I record a pair of tracks in my 48/24 session, that's what they are. How does this get me to 16/44.1? You still have to export and convert....what am I missing here?

[sburgess]

Is there a reason why you're at 48k if your final product is a 44.1 CD? Unless you've got a reason (like the original tracks are also used in video), any sonic advantage gained by the slightly higher sampling frequency will be obliterated by having to do a sample-rate conversion. SRC is definitely the weak link in the chain, due to the complexity of the math.

-Scott

[Peter Duemmler]

AFAIK inserts on Aux tracks are post-fader, too.
And if you record tracks in a 24 session they will be 24bit files, but if you used a dither plug-in that dithers to 16bit the remaining 8 bits can be truncated (e.g. with Masterlist CD) without loss.

Peter

[tld]

I just checked the PTreference guide. If you look at the beginning of chapter 26 on mixing (starting at page 331) it shows the flow of each track type (audio, aux, and master fader). That indicates that inserts on both audio and aux are pre-fader.

Tom

[Rail Jon Rogut]

The reason to Bounce vs. Buss to new tracks - Bounce doesn't have any delay, whereas bussing does. Depending on your application, this may or may not matter.

Rail