12.8 for vanilla : major disappointment.

[Cacov]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Guys, please be specific which deal you mean; subscription will always give you the latest version but once sub runs out you have nothing. SUPPORT PLAN is the one that keeps your PERMANENT LICENSE updated.

Not going to argue, but just clarifying the terms

(For non-HD customers, the annual Support plan and Update plan are separate, and $99 each)

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Guys, please be specific which deal you mean; subscription will always give you the latest version but once sub runs out you have nothing. SUPPORT PLAN is the one that keeps your PERMANENT LICENSE updated.

Not going to argue, but just clarifying the terms

It is, in fact, an oddity, as illogical as all the rest.

The license here is linked to technical support. The subscription is linked to the software update. I have already deceived myself by renewing the license instead of the subscription. Avid corrected this for me, but it was complicated, even to explain!

The two should be linked automatically, as everywhere. The idea is to technically support those who pay for a product.

But we would have to pay double. Subscription + license. Avid would have lost a lot of customers with this rate.

I know that users need more specific support, but it should have "PRO" support with higher rates. But to remove the basic support "free" is another quirk of Avid.

[JFreak]

In fact, standard software users are getting "basic" support and HD users get "ExpertPlus" support. Then there is "elite" support for companies that have too much money to spare, and some even hire an Avid employee in-house. So you do get what you pay for...

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

This point here, really is the most important part of all of this. There is no return on investment, for paying Avid to fix bugs. If anybody thinks that paying an annual fee to fix bugs, brings any value whatsoever, I just don't know what to say to that.

From the very beginning of this whole subscription model, Avid said that the annual fee would bring new features quicker. Never did they say or imply that paying the annual subscription fee to have the bugs fixed.

In summary, when avid came out with the subscription model, they said that they would be able to come out with new features quicker and faster by not having to wait until a new version was released. The money we were spending, which strictly, and solely for, new features, and new features on only

Never, I repeat never, was there any discussion about paying for a bug fixes.

Basically all we have received for the most part since ProTools 12 came out, is bug fixes. Hardly any new features. Giving vanilla users, HD features, is not developing new features!

There has been some new features, but nowhere near enough to justify the years of the annual subscription fee.

How many times does this have to get regurgitated on the DUC for avid to figure out the what they're doing is simply not working.

I have been an HD User for well over a decade, and historically, I was the first person to pay for the upgrade to the new versions when they came out. Only six months ago did I actually start using my version of ProTools HD 11, that I've owned for years. There is no way in the world at this point, I would give avid a single penny of my money with the way they have completely mismanaged this whole thing.

I can easily afford to pay the money, that's not the issue, I run a $40 million a year business, so I think I know a thing or two about how to run a business. I simply just cannot get behind this business model. It's not that I'm against subscription, I'm not, I pay slate for his monthly subscription just because I believe that he's done it the right way, I don't even use this plug-ins, but I pay the monthly fee because I support what he's doing.

Avid needs to learn from slate, the way he goes about it, he is constantly releasing new plug-ins, bringing value to the money you're spending. I would actually pay more if he did ask for it today, not expecting anything additional, because he's easily bringing value to the money you're spending.

I desperately want Avid to get their game together, I am such a huge fan of their productS, it's a company deeply in need of solid leadership, leadership is something that company has not had for a very long time.

I spend a great deal of my personal time on this forum, trying to help users out, providing support for ProTools users in the best way I possibly can, with the knowledge I've gained over all the years I've been doing this. I can only pass on the knowledge I've learned, as like many of us, I continue to learn from other users here. But you have to ask yourself, why would somebody like me spend so much of my time trying to help other users of a software application, if I didn't strongly believe in it? Therefore, the criticism I have, is meant to make things better, not just to drag the company down. That's the last thing in the world I personally want to do.

All this is very true. The negative comments are due to the frustration at the inconsistencies of Avid, but no one wants the business to fall, of course, nor that PT disappear. However, this frustration is legitimate, even a little anger. You explain the facts that lead to that.

One solution would be to stay at an X version and stop participating in this unpleasant dance.

But the cure can be worse than the disease.

1) There is no correction version. Only updates. So we would have to live a long time with the bugs (it's still what we do! But we try to get out ...).

2) If we want to resume the dance, before an interesting version (it is rare ...), there is penalty. Worse than tax.

3) So you have to pay. But pay without getting anything, or very little.

Avid has created a real jail for her and her clients. I really appreciate Pro Tools, there is the problem. And the habit more.

But one thing is certain: my subscription ends at the end of the year. If Avid does not deliver the promised merchandise (including MIDI development), I keep a stable version of PT to record and mix, and I work with Cubase for MIDI.

And I keep my money to invest in my physical system, not to buy wind.

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by JFreak

In fact, standard software users are getting "basic" support and HD users get "ExpertPlus" support. Then there is "elite" support for companies that have too much money to spare, and some even hire an Avid employee in-house. So you do get what you pay for...

I tried to communicate with Avid for a "basic" support and I was told: no, you no longer have the license for support.

So I do not know what you're talking about. Or I do not understand anything.

[daeron80]

Originally Posted by cmbourget

Or I do not understand anything.

Me either. I got to jump from 9 to 12 for $99, with the implication, from everything I could find to read about it, that I would be able to keep going for $99/year. Second year rolls around, and they want $99*2. Fine, I'll support myself through forums, blogs, and Ideascale. Are they going to want $99*3 next year?

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by daeron80

Me either. I got to jump from 9 to 12 for $99, with the implication, from everything I could find to read about it, that I would be able to keep going for $99/year. Second year rolls around, and they want $99*2. Fine, I'll support myself through forums, blogs, and Ideascale. Are they going to want $99*3 next year?

Even "error" than me. We confuse the two planes. Normal, because there should be only one! So it's $ 198 a year, not $ 99. And if you miss a year, it goes up!

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by daeron80

Are they going to want $99*3 next year?

Hopefully not

[jryser]

Speak with ur $. I stopped on 11.3. Two clones on each computer. Should last awhile until Avid changes or dies. But no more $ from me.


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[TOM@METRO]

One thing to consider, especially with regard to Mac users; as new OS updates come along, new versions of Pro Tools may be necessary to remain compatible.