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  #91  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:01 PM
digidominator digidominator is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

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Originally Posted by BaileyBass View Post
If avid is engaging in unfair business practices then you ought to get together a class action lawsuit. See how far that gets you. But a bunch of recording professionals giving their interpretation of law is going to be about as effective as their lawyer telling you that your mix sucks.
well, you obviously don't understand class action, or you would not have posted that.

and what makes you think that someone cannot be both a lawyer and a recording professional, by the way?

in any event, the interpretation of the law is down to the trier of fact. there are jury instructions and so forth.

the "recording professionals" / plaintiffs have the cause of action and the facts that the law is applied to.

not that a class action would not be effective or useful, but i don't know that i would start there.

all that would likely be necessary in a simple matter such as this would be for people who had been wronged to simply demand a refund [not on this board, but in writing to the dealer or manufacturer]. do it in such a way that you have a record of the demand, and give them a reasonable length of time to respond in writing.

you do it without a bunch of "we hate you digi and you are going to fail miserably if you don't fix everything right away" rhetoric.

it is not world war 3, it is just a simple, little, everyday refund.

if they don't give you a refund, then you file a little small claims action [costs only a few dollars, and you get your costs back when you win], and / or talk to the better business bureau. if you are really poor and cannot pay anything to file the small claims action, you can get a fee waiver.

people doing that, and without a mob mentality, will mean a million times more to them than all the ranting and raving on this board.

it may be a small matter to some, but it appears a part of a pattern and practice that is improper, as far as i can see. so what you want to accomplish is to show them that the improper practice is not going to work for them anymore, and that it will cost them.

a class action, or a regular civil suit could be brought, by the way, and i think it would be successful. it happens all the time. for some people it may be appropriate if they have sufficient damages to claim.





Quote:
As I said, the 49.00 is no big deal, and I am firm in believing that Digi has given me a good value for my money, despite the fact that they cannot live up to all their promises.. which i agree is true. Structure has never been "great" and even with the fix it will still be RTAS, and therefore inefficient. And I also agree that if you want a refund based on this lack of function, you have a right to ask for one.
However, holding anyones feet to the fire over this, when there are much larger fish to fry... well that does not make sense to me.

if its not something you want to spend your time worrying about, fine. but you are here being underfoot, defending digidesign against good people that simply want what they paid for, or a refund.


Quote:
Read the quarterly reports and look at the 3-4 rounds of layoffs. How many consecutive quarters of heavy loss does it take to "determine"? 8 or 9 in a row? hmmmm... not showing at major trade shows? CS updates coming fewer and farther between? Plugin development at a standstill? Management/development in a state of Flux?
Stock was trading in the mid/low forties a few years ago.. closed today at under 14.00? SB
none of that is even remotely cause to not ask for a refund if they failed to provide the product or service that was paid for.

if they were in bankruptcy or something like that, then maybe it would make sense to cut your losses. but companies go in and out of "good times" as a matter of routine, and people cannot be made to waive their rights to basic fair dealing based on a company's fortunes and misfortunes, many of which are generally of the company's own making.

and it is obviously simple conjecture on your part, your "analysis" of certain "signs".

respectfully, i would say that you may very well have no idea exactly what is going on with avid, unless you are on the board of directors, a major stockholder, or otherwise privy to their current "plan of action".

so none of that nonsense would even be properly before a court unless digi filed some sort of bankruptcy proceeding. it would not be relevant to issue, i.e. the fact that they allegedly took money without providing the promised product or service.
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  #92  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:16 PM
studiostuff studiostuff is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

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Originally Posted by digidominator View Post
and what makes you think that someone cannot be both a lawyer and a recording professional, by the way?
Would it be because having one's head tucked away is detrimental to accurate hearing?

That's my guess...
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  #93  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:23 PM
Steve@ZooWest Steve@ZooWest is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

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Originally Posted by songman View Post
Oh yeah, this is such a complicated matter only the really clever people like you can understand the deeper meaning and consequences. Give me a break.

.....
And no Steve@ZooWest, I do not believe what is happening in this thread is going to benefit me in the long run. I think you have to be extremely naive to even think that. And I am also not going to go elsewhere and be happy with my PT rig because you say so. Maybe you could make an effort in future to remain civil and polite (and that includes your responses to [thin ice] and [BaileyBass] by the way).
You might be right about it not benefiting you. However, my opinion, naive though it may be, is that when enough users are upset about something that seems patently unfair, and express that in multiple posts, there is a chance that Digi is more likely to address the issue than if no one peeps about it.

The part about going elsewhere and being happy with PT - my intention was to say if you are unhappy with this thread and don't agree with those posting, perhaps staying away from it would be an option. Didn't mean any more than that, and I'm sorry if I've offended you.
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  #94  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:30 PM
relaxo relaxo is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

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Originally Posted by Steve@ZooWest View Post
there is a chance that Digi is more likely to address the issue than if no one peeps about it.
Just spotted Airuserblog's comments on this matter:Feelings Matter
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  #95  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:34 PM
Steve@ZooWest Steve@ZooWest is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyBass View Post
Try reading clearly exactly what I said... DAW and hardware
IF you pay the 49.00 they are not stealing.
You sound confused.... just because I do not agree with you does not mean that I am not thinking clearly... just differently. Chill
Okay, 'steal' was a bad word choice. 'Exact' would have worked better. The puzzling thing is why you and a small minority are intent on defending what the vast majority are convinced is an unethical policy as relates to the Structure functionality and upgrade.
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  #96  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:38 PM
Steve@ZooWest Steve@ZooWest is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Just spotted Airuserblog's comments on this matter:Feelings Matter

"To be fair to AVID, in terms of any response to the concerns of the user base, they are taking the standard US corporate line, which is 'no comment'. Be under no illusions, any kind of response would pass through one of their lawyers and at this point the only question they would be asking is 'how do we minimize come back?"
Thanks for pointing me/us to the blog.

By 'address' I didn't mean so much a forum reply as a favorable decision/action toward the users in question.
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  #97  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:46 PM
netnoggin netnoggin is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

You have to keep their response (or lack thereof) in perspective. From their 2009 SEC filing (Google is your friend):
Quote:
Pro Tools solutions accounted for approximately 17%, 14% and 15% of our consolidated net revenues in 2009, 2008 and 2007, respectively.
They have bigger fish to fry, apparently.


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  #98  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Steve@ZooWest Steve@ZooWest is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

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Originally Posted by thin ice View Post
I guess the Junior High School way is to take offence to someone daring to have a different opinion to you. I accept your opinion, so please return the favour without insults
My jr hi comment was addressing your statement that we could go to Logic or Cubase if we felt inclined. That seems like an immature/shortsighted response to users who have what the majority think is a legitimate gripe. Perhaps you meant something different from the obvious?
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  #99  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:53 PM
relaxo relaxo is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Sorry to repeat myself, but if I got rid of Pro Tools HD now or in the next 5 years, I might as well take a sledgehammer to my Neve 1073s, because my studio would be out of business within 2 weeks. I WOULD HAVE ZERO BUSINESS, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. There is no work in NYC mixing, tracking or using Logic or anything else besides Pro Tools HD. I get hundreds of PT session each year. I get about two Logic session and maybe four DP sessions yearly.

I'm here with the protestors because Avid is my "home company" and would hate to see them really sour, turning into something truly horrific like NI. Digidesign has treated me very well until the last couple of years....historically a truly top tier company.
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  #100  
Old 03-26-2010, 03:54 PM
BaileyBass BaileyBass is offline
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Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

[QUOTE=digidominator;1579900]
Quote:
well, you obviously don't understand class action, or you would not have posted that.
Well, I guess my sarcasm was lost in the writing. It was meant in jest.
Quote:
and what makes you think that someone cannot be both a lawyer and a recording professional, by the way?
Just never met one... but I am sure he exists. One that specializes in Tort/class actions is too busy to be a recording pro.

Quote:
not that a class action would not be effective or useful, but i don't know that i would start there.
As I said, it was in jest.

Quote:
all that would likely be necessary in a simple matter such as this would be for people who had been wronged to simply demand a refund [not on this board, but in writing to the dealer or manufacturer]. do it in such a way that you have a record of the demand, and give them a reasonable length of time to respond in writing.
That makes good sense.

Quote:
you do it without a bunch of "we hate you digi and you are going to fail miserably if you don't fix everything right away" rhetoric.
The kind of stuff that fills this thread.

Quote:
if they don't give you a refund, then you file a little small claims action [costs only a few dollars, and you get your costs back when you win], and / or talk to the better business bureau. if you are really poor and cannot pay anything to file the small claims action, you can get a fee waiver.
that depends upon the state in which you file.
Quote:
people doing that, and without a mob mentality, will mean a million times more to them than all the ranting and raving on this board.
Amen.


Quote:
if its not something you want to spend your time worrying about, fine. but you are here being underfoot, defending digidesign against good people that simply want what they paid for, or a refund.
I am not defending digi any more than you are attacking them. just sharing a different perspective.



Quote:
but companies go in and out of "good times" as a matter of routine, and people cannot be made to waive their rights to basic fair dealing based on a company's fortunes and misfortunes, many of which are generally of the company's own making.
If you had walked the isles of Music Messe in Frankfurt these last few days and talked to some of these businesses you would discover that these are not "routine" times... on a global level.

Quote:
and it is obviously simple conjecture on your part, your "analysis" of certain "signs".
Public documents, public layoffs, etc... what would your analysis be?

Quote:
respectfully, i would say that you may very well have no idea exactly what is going on with avid
I don't think Avid is sure about what is going on. How could anyone else be sure?

I guess my ulterior motive is to keep our eyes on the big picture. 8.x fixes and not get sidetracked by 49.00 worth of "principles". But hey, it is "our" forum and you can beat the horse as hard as you like. SB
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