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Old 02-25-2005, 11:24 PM
travista00 travista00 is offline
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Default Melodyne Question for Steve M.

hi steve, i'm using pro tools 6.7 on mac os 10.3 with a g5. i've got melodyne pro version 2.6. i'm using melodyne bridge to get audio into melodyne from pro tools. the problem is that melodyne can't correctly detect melodies for [bleep]. i tried it on vocals and it seemed to take a lot of work in the "edit definition" window to get it even close. so i tried a simple 8th notes melodic acoustic picking part. disaster! it couldn't detect pitch or rhythm, and i played around with the detection algorithms quite a bit. so i then thought i'd throw something really easy at it... long notes from a sine wave patch on a synth. melodyne could almost get it, but i still had to do tons of work in the "edit definition" window. what gives here? what's your secret to getting this program to work? i also think the audio to midi thing could be really great if it could actually detect melodies correctly.... thanks in advance for your help.

travis
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Old 02-25-2005, 11:48 PM
sizzilini sizzilini is offline
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Default Hi Tex

It's been a long time.
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Old 02-26-2005, 02:32 AM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

Quote:
hi steve, i'm using pro tools 6.7 on mac os 10.3 with a g5. i've got melodyne pro version 2.6. i'm using melodyne bridge to get audio into melodyne from pro tools. the problem is that melodyne can't correctly detect melodies for [bleep]. i tried it on vocals and it seemed to take a lot of work in the "edit definition" window to get it even close. so i tried a simple 8th notes melodic acoustic picking part. disaster! it couldn't detect pitch or rhythm, and i played around with the detection algorithms quite a bit. so i then thought i'd throw something really easy at it... long notes from a sine wave patch on a synth. melodyne could almost get it, but i still had to do tons of work in the "edit definition" window. what gives here? what's your secret to getting this program to work? i also think the audio to midi thing could be really great if it could actually detect melodies correctly.... thanks in advance for your help.

The detection works pretty well for me. I usually use one of the vocal detection presets. And then I do go into the edit definition window and where ever there are bends or scoops I separate the note. I usually find some mistracked octaves, and a few wrong notes that Melodyne will allow me to move (sometimes it won't). Sometimes just separating breaths, and chopping a vocal line into syllables even though the notes are the same can make a huge difference, and tracking lines will appear where they weren't before. It takes time, but for vocal correction it's almost like, the more you separate the better the tracking gets. It's still faster than other pitch correction plug-ins in manual mode. I'm still learning the finer points of Melodyne, but it definitely is working well.



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Old 02-26-2005, 05:40 AM
Snitz Snitz is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

I think the initial analysis takes a long time because Melodyne is applying a complicated process to your entire file. I too find that Melodyne does a good job of analyzing melodies (not perfect but what is), and that generally the more you separate the better it handles small details. Also, the ability to manage vibrato, scoops, independently is amazing.

AS
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Old 02-26-2005, 11:25 AM
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Chris Lambrechts Chris Lambrechts is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

Steve, since I notice that you know the melodyne environment quite well and you use it for pitch correction on vocal tracks. Wondering what you think about the 'sound' of melodyne. Don't know what version they're at right now but the last one I tried ... 2.5 (I think) was still ... hmmmm . I tried several settings but couldn't seem to find something that satisfied me. All of them seemed to give me a low pass filter effect (though it seemed better then in revious versions).

That and the fact I couldn't seem to find a way to have sample accuracy (important while importing and exporting imho).
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Old 02-26-2005, 11:49 AM
travista00 travista00 is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

steve, thanks for your reply. i guess i'll mess around with it some more, but i'm really doing everything that you're doing in terms of different pitch detection algorithms and melody definition editing. so far, it's just not a satisfactory experience for me....

chris, the sound quality of the algorithms is another thing that really bothers me. (i'm using version 2.6). it sounds a little "washy." my sense is that if doesn't detect the pitch correctly in the first place, then when you go to manipulate that pitch, it's not really gonna work very well. you can even fine tune the pitch algorithms per phrase using the "play alogrithm tool," but it doesn't seem to help that much.

travis
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:05 AM
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AINSLIE AINSLIE is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

Hey - I have had great sucess with the pitch detection. Use the appropriate preset, then narrow the range of detection to the exact range of the vocal (or whatever). This has been critical for me. It is important to learn all the tools and the various modes before you will be satisfied. I don't recommend more seperations like Stave does in the pitch detection window .. i prefer to remove or add seperations in the editor as I am working thru it.

As for the sound of it - yes there is a sound - BUT I feel it is more pleasing that the alternatives. And the benefit of real time correction, returning any piece to original, formant correction. Its not perfect - then neither is the alternative and to my ear the degradation of audio is far outweighed by the pitch benefites. If you can tolerate the others, then you will be much happier with Melodyn. Well worth the work.

Sorry for the glowing endorsement but I have only had it a couple weeks - done several vocals and am quite excited by it. I am a quialified Piano Tuner (did it most mornings for 20 years!) so I really am sensitive on this issue. But I also love the ebb and flow that pitch nuances contribute to emotion. Melodyne helps me to maintain that as well as tonal quality and pitch centering.

As far as sync goes it has worked perfectly for me ..

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  #8  
Old 02-27-2005, 01:29 AM
Tone Tone is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

I agree with much of what's already been said here. I've just completed a fix up of a vocal on a big ballad where the vocal was very exposed and needed extreme care to avoid artifacts. What I find is that you have to set the detection range excactly to the range the vocal spans which maximises your chances of a good tracking, it sometimes helps to chop it into sections. Also the amplitude of the original vocal makes a huge difference to how it behaves in tracking as does the timbre of the vocalist. I have got used to using all the different tools for different notes, you certainly cant do a 1 fix for all type thing on most vocals as it will sound like automatic mode on autotune. It's not perfect and yes it does change the 'quality' of the sound but used with care it's pleasing most of the time and I'm thankful for it!

One request for Melodyne, please allow a user-definable cents offset when double-clicking to drop a note in tune so it makes it nearly there instead of right there.
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Old 02-27-2005, 03:15 AM
Steve MacMillan Steve MacMillan is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

Quote:
I don't recommend more seperations like Stave does in the pitch detection window .. i prefer to remove or add seperations in the editor as I am working thru it.

I found that I could work that way if the tracking was good. If I find I am missing tracking plots against the waveform after detecting the melody. I can improve the situation greatly by correcting the melody in the edit definition window. Just by separating the notes, the plot will appear on notes that previously didn't show a plot.

As far as the sound goes, sometimes it's great, sometimes not so great, depending on what Melodyne is doing. But the pitch correction sounds so much more natural than anything else I've ever used, and I've used them all. Nothing compares at handling vocal vibrato. I might use a combination of all available tools to correct different parts of a lead vocal.

I do end up correcting the timing a little line by line.

STeve
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2005, 08:22 AM
Snitz Snitz is offline
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Default Re: Melodyne Question for Steve M.

Quote:
I might use a combination of all available tools to correct different parts of a lead vocal.
Exactly. I usually do a pass with Melodyne and a pass with Pitch Dr., comp between the two for a final. Don't hear any issue w/sound that trumps the power of these tools.

AS
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