How to upgrade from PT v7.3 to Pt v10

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Claudio Records

The Apple spec is as you say but interestingly they quote the 12 core as 'Two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5645 processors' and the Quad core as 'One 3.2GHz Quad-core Intel Xeon W3565 processor' Then when it comes to the spec for the Memory they mention the other processor options 2.4GHz, 2.66GHz and 3.06Ghz systems together with 1333MHz DDR3 RAM.

The Mac Pro's I see being offered here in the UK have all been modified it seems or perhaps they are quoting the 'turbo' spec? It’s hard to find an original unmodified m/c. I took your point about single processors but then realised that to use faster RAM (1333MHz) I would need the Dual processor version (2.66 or 3.06GHz)
It also facilitates more RAM capacity <64GB, although I don't ever see me needing much above a certain Level! Apple seem not to recommend 8GB RAM sticks for less than 48GB occupancy otherwise, I would probably only use 16GB (2x8) or 32GB (4x8) for economy. I can't imagine this not working.

Is there anything to be gained by using SSD's on the work drives as well? I assume PT is only saving the very small 'instruction' files on the work drives once the audio has been saved on them? Otherwise, I would need some serious sized SSD's :)

There is no 'turbo speed' for the 2012 MacPro. The ram speed is not connected to whether one has single or dual cpus. It depends on how many ram slots are used; the MacPro is a triple channel ram machine and runs best with three of four slots filled and with all the same size/spec ram. On my single cpu MacPro I have three 16 gig ram modules. Being you're going to be running PT10 which is a 32 bit program you only can access approximately 4 gig of ram. That is unless you use a program like VEPro 6 and host your sample using vi's inside it.

An ssd for a system drive is a good thing. While it would be nice speed-wise to have an ssd for session files it's not really necessary. I use a pair of WD Black 4 TB 7200 rpm drives (one for sessions and one for samples) in the internal drive bays.

You really need to look into OWC as I and Janne have said. They will ship overseas.

[Claudio Records]

Lots of useful info Thanks -
The Mac specs quotes:
'◦ Two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5645 processors
◦ 12MB of fully shared L3 cache per processor
◦ Turbo Boost dynamic performance up to 2.67GHz
◦ Hyper-Threading technology for up to 24 virtual cores
Is this different from 'turbo speed'?
So if I want to use 8GB RAM modules I will need a total of 48GB
More importantly, I did not realise that PT HD10 is only 32bit as I was hoping to use 64bit thinking it would avoid the 2GB file size limit for long files. If so, looks like I need to think again about which PT version I need now. Good job my old G5/PT7.3 are still up and running while I plan this!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Claudio Records

Lots of useful info Thanks -
The Mac specs quotes:
'◦ Two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5645 processors
◦ 12MB of fully shared L3 cache per processor
◦ Turbo Boost dynamic performance up to 2.67GHz
◦ Hyper-Threading technology for up to 24 virtual cores
Is this different from 'turbo speed'?
So if I want to use 8GB RAM modules I will need a total of 48GB
More importantly, I did not realise that PT HD10 is only 32bit as I was hoping to use 64bit thinking it would avoid the 2GB file size limit for long files. If so, looks like I need to think again about which PT version I need now. Good job my old G5/PT7.3 are still up and running while I plan this!

You really don't need a dual cpu machine. Get a single cpu machine with the fastest clock speed you can get. The best bang for the buck used to be the single hex core 3.33 GHz cpu in a MacPro.

Do you really need those TDM cards and interfaces? I know you have them bit still...... I'd sell them if I could, use the proceeds and get a decent firewire or USB2 interface and a current PT license. Which if I understand it has PT10/11/12/2018 license assets. PT11 and up will get you into the 64 bit world and you don't have to sweat file sizes. Plus you can use all the ram a computer can hold.

[Darryl Ramm]

... lots of great advice from Jack and Janne.

PT10/PT10HD is 32 bit. The last version of PT that supports TDM/DSP. Pro Tools 11 introduced 64 bit.

PT10 HD (but not Pro Tools 10) includes disk cache that lies outside that 32-bit application address space and provides improvement in IO performance, that helps put soem extra memory to good use, but in no way helps if you are running out of address space for Pro Tools itself.

File size limits are not the same as memory address space limits. Wav file for example have an internal design limit that puts their size at 2Gb or closer to 4GB in cases. Nothing to do with the application memory address space or any limit of the filesystem. You have to look at any spec in detail for any DAW to understand what audio file length it supports... and you may not want to utilize large files and then get stuck with them not being portable.

The only reason for working on Pro Tools 10 I can see is for folks with legacy TDM hardware. otherwise there is a lot to be said about being on Pro Tools 2018 *standard*.... including it having a lot cheaper care and feeding costs than Ultimate. If so... need to make sure all plugins you want to use are available in AAX-64 Native format, TDM and RTAS plugins don't run in Pro Tools 11/12/2018.

[Claudio Records]

This sounds a much better plan I have to admit! Will call the Avid rep again about the perpetual software he quoted me originally.

How do you get multichannel I/O from a USB2/firewire decent interface without using a mixer with an interface? as I assume, they are only dual channel devices? (My son uses a Steinberg which I imagine would be considered basic) This may of course not be an issue for me working in stereo but quality is!
Am really grateful for all this help thank you!

[Darryl Ramm]

Multichannel IO? Inputs or outputs? I thought you were mostly editing/mixing. Lots of audio interfaces provide multiple inputs and outputs, we have no idea what you other requirements (Mic premps, line in/out counts, ADAT In/Out, AES/EBU In/Out, monitor control features, etc. etc.) or budget is. You need to spend time looking at what vendors offer. UAD, Apogee, Motu, Focusrite, Presonus, etc. Look through stuff on Sweetwater to get an idea what is out there.

Hopefully when you say multichannel you are not meaning 5.1 etc.... if so then the surround sound support in Pro Tools Ultimate is a likely reason to buy that not Pro Tools (standard).

This thread has wandered around a lot. Hopefully you are talking to a sales critter at a large/mainstream Avid dealer... but make sure you are telling them what you want to achieve artistically and any technical requirements and let them give you the overall technical options. It's not uncommon here to see folks trying to solve some specific problem and maybe missing the forest for the trees.

And to throw another wrench in the gears here, if it was _me_ today I'd be thinking about a Mac Mini, Pro Tools 2018 standard (not officially supported today but should run fine, issue at very small IO buffer sizes that won't affect you) and probably a UAD Apollo X interface. (and actually I use a MacBook Pro running Mojave and 2018.10 ). Once I had everything running and converted over and tested I'd probably sell off the old gear and recover a little cost.

[Claudio Records]

Thank you Darryl. So if the file size limit of 2GB is always controlled by the WAV file protocol then 64bit won't help? Somehow, I thought it was something to do with the MS standard and that 64bit would double it to 4GB

Certainly, at 192kHz/24bit stereo the max file length is approx. 30min but with classical music we can get pieces twice that or more and my old PT7.3 system can often throw wobbles, so I have to make cuts or I can’t easily bounce them down. At least when blu-ray mastering I don't have that problem.
Worth bearing in mind your comment about getting stuck with large file handling.

I presume latency is now no longer a problem using software only rather than on-board DSPs. Is it because processors are much faster these days?
Am trying to keep up with all this fantastic help being offered so many thanks for your patience with me.

Wagners good if you are charging by the hour...

[Claudio Records]

I use my own home made mic amps with individual channels. So a max of 6 inputs to a Nagra IV. Normally for my own label I use stereo even for a full orchestra and soloist! but I like to be prepared for that odd freelance demanding job, so its nice to have more options with the PT I/Os. However, I think I may have to forgo that luxury and look at the PT2018 'standard' option you recommend and maybe Apogee or similar. I do have a MBP (2011) if it will work. This project is taking new directions.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Claudio Records

Thank you Darryl. So if the file size limit of 2GB is always controlled by the WAV file protocol then 64bit won't help? Somehow, I thought it was something to do with the MS standard and that 64bit would double it to 4GB

It's all the file format. "4GB" versions of WAV for example use a 32-bit index in the internal WAV header vs. a 31-bit header in "2GB" versions. Nothing to do with computer address space or the filesystem (as long as it can handle large files, with modern ones can). You should search for what the limits are for WAV and AIFF files in Pro Tools 2018 and do more reading.. there is lots of discussion out there on the web. And is maximum file length does not directly set the maximum session length anyhow (at least with modern Pro Tools) so I'm a bit lost as to what any issue is..

/snip/

I presume latency is now no longer a problem using software only rather than on-board DSPs. Is it because processors are much faster these days?
Am trying to keep up with all this fantastic help being offered so many thanks for your patience with me.

Latency can be an issue. Especially if you want to track/monitor though plugins. Thats why we have hardware monitoring systems, UAD Apollos, and HDX, the modern version of TDM. We have no idea what you are doing, and I'm very confused, you talked originally about editing. Now you are worried about low latency tracking? But you are recording analog to a Nagra? Studio or live classical? nHow is latency an issue?

This is really not a great way to get help. If you want more help here why don't you collect all your thoughts and requirements in one detailed post. Dribbling stuff out like this has got you a list of suggestions for things addressing different needs/questions. And what are the *real* problems you a re trying to solve? Hopefully it's not just file size limits.

[Claudio Records]

Its true. I must collect my thoughts together now to see where this is leading. I admit to not seeing the whole picture or understanding all the issues. But its been a great help nevertheless - Thank you