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  #1  
Old 07-14-2008, 06:47 AM
Che_Guitarra Che_Guitarra is offline
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Default Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux send

I've owned Line 6's Gearbox Gold plugin for quite some time, and while i'm more than impressed with the palette of tones it can offer, I can only get a great tone out of it when using it as a track insert.


Using Gearbox on an aux track as an FX send makes the plugin sound weak and/or phase affected. No matter what I do or what values I tinker with, as an aux send it just sounds like a B-grade clone of the plugin i'm used to. Thus, I tend to only use it as an insert, and this really chews up CPU power. A stab in the dark - i'd say I have some sort of latency issue, but I could be completely wrong.


The Line 6 Gearbox does need to be connected to a USB powered Toneport interface to work, but I think this is more a protection device than an external processor.


I'm not sure if I need to place a timing shifter before the plug to try correct the perceived phasing, or maybe increase the buffer size (it's set to Level 2 - Default), or maybe something else...


Can anyone offer advice to get it sounding the same - insert or aux? I'm in over my head here.

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Old 07-14-2008, 07:18 AM
Shawn Simpson Shawn Simpson is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

It's probably related to the type of effect you're using. Guitar processors like that often have mix controls at each effect because they're all processed in series and that allows you to control the blend of wet and dry. If you're sending something to it, you'll have the dry signal on your track and what sounds like some measure of dry sound on the aux return which will make it sound phasey. It really is a latency issue, but it's not something you can compensate for since it's the nature of the processing type. Try digging thru the parameters of the effects and adjusting the mix levels to 100% wet.

Also, what types of effects are you trying to use? Are they effects that would normally be used on a send/return versus a direct insert? (ie. reverb, delay, chorus=send/return; EQ, compression, gating, expanding=insert)
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:44 PM
Che_Guitarra Che_Guitarra is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

I set up aux tracks for delays, reverbs and modulation... as you say compression, EQ and even mic-pre modeling are generally best applied as inserts.

Even if I only run the delay/reverb/modulation components of the Gearbox plug on the aux track it still sounds thin, phasey and unusable no matter what the wet/dry FX ratio. I just can't get the plugin sounding anywhere near as good as it does as an insert....
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:13 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

I think your problem using it on an aux track is that you are mixing the unprocessed track with the processed track. Many plugins have latency and that can create phasing issues. This kind of plugin is better used as an insert, or by un-assigning the original track's output. Another option is to set the original track's output to the buss you want send to the aux track(instead of using an aux send).
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:25 PM
sowby sowby is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

May also have to do with the fact that an aux bus takes about 384 samples of delay compared to an audio track.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:10 PM
Shawn Simpson Shawn Simpson is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

The phasing issue is definitely caused by the combination of "too similar" signal with different timing. In a time-based effect, combining the processed sound with the unprocessed sound won't cause this phasing because the effected signal is completely different from the original; or at the very least the phasing is intentional and modulated enough that it sounds cool, which is the point of some of the effects.

I think Albee hit it on the head though. It sounds like you may have better luck with this plug-in by assigning the outputs of the source tracks to the aux ratner than trying to use a send/return configuration. There may be some parameter you just haven't found yet in one of the effects that's passing some unprocessed signal, but if you're digging the effect outside the phasing issues, using it on a subgroup master (as described above) will give you the best of both worlds: share the processing to save DSP and avoid phase issues.

For what it's worth, the latency incurred on sends to timebased effects adds to the predelay, but won't cause phase issues.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:46 AM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

Quote:
Even if I only run the delay/reverb/modulation components of the Gearbox plug on the aux track it still sounds thin, phasey and unusable no matter what the wet/dry FX ratio.
I am surprised by this... If the problem is as described, due to latency in the plug or with use of the aux, then setting the plug-in to full wet should sound better, as the aux track wouldn't be adding in any out-of-phase, original signal. Are you talking about the ratio in the plug or the ratio that results from your send level?

Are you going from mono to mono or mono to stereo etc?
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:30 AM
Mark Reis Mark Reis is offline
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Default Re: Plugin sounds fine used as insert, but phasey as aux sen

If you're routing dry signal straigh through and also using a send to put processing on it, you could end up with comb filtering, depending on the type of processing used. To check this, route your dry signal through another aux input and put the delay compensator plug-in on that aux track so that the amount of delay on both busses is equal.

If your problem has gone away, then it's comb filtering. I've never experienced this by using delays, reverbs, eqs, etc on an aux as long as that aux was fully wet. If you were to put just an EQ on an aux and have the dry signal Sending to that aux, you're going to get comb filtering. That's just not how you set up an EQ.
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