Dealing with track counts

[seanbil]

This is obviously just another licensing bug. Irrespective of the theory that Avid is intentionally trying to find ways to artificially manufacture "value" for its HD customers, there is no way that it would choose to subject itself to the sort of liability that could result from a product that arbitrarily destroys data without warning. I have yet to verify this defect for myself, but if it does exist, then Avid needs to immediately warn its customers of the potential for data loss from using the affected version(s).

[jeffro]

Originally Posted by Inglesworth

This may have been discussed already, but I have to get it off my chest. The new way Pro Tools (non HD) deals with too many tracks is absolutely absurd.

In older versions, it would basically take any tracks over the maximum track count and make them inactive. I could still deactivate a group of tracks and activate the others if I needed to access them for any reason.

Now in 12, Pro Tools just completely deletes the tracks from your session before it actually opens up! WTF?!?!?!

What I really want to know, is who thought that was a good idea? And I sure hope they aren't employed anymore.

The behavior didn't change in 12, it's the same as previous versions.

The dialog is a little different in 12 than 11 & earlier... it states "This project exceeds the supported track count. The following tracks will be deleted." and it displays the track names whereas in 11, 10, etc. it states "Some tracks were dropped because the maximum number of disk tracks was exceeded." without displaying the track names (you'd have to save a report to see them).

What version were you using previously?

[coolbass]

Originally Posted by jeffro

The behavior didn't change in 12, it's the same as previous versions.

The dialog is a little different in 12 than 11 & earlier... it states "This project exceeds the supported track count. The following tracks will be deleted." and it displays the track names whereas in 11, 10, etc. it states "Some tracks were dropped because the maximum number of disk tracks was exceeded." without displaying the track names (you'd have to save a report to see them).

What version were you using previously?

Deleting tracks? Unbelievable. The manner in which this company treats its customers gets worse and worse. I already regret updating to PT 12.

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by jeffro

The behavior didn't change in 12, it's the same as previous versions.

The dialog is a little different in 12 than 11 & earlier... it states "This project exceeds the supported track count. The following tracks will be deleted." and it displays the track names whereas in 11, 10, etc. it states "Some tracks were dropped because the maximum number of disk tracks was exceeded." without displaying the track names (you'd have to save a report to see them).

so just to be clear,

you're saying it still is just DEACTIVATING the 'excess' tracks, but they remain in the session, and the term "deleted" is just semantic?

[jeffro]

Originally Posted by wwittman

so just to be clear,

you're saying it still is just DEACTIVATING the 'excess' tracks, but they remain in the session, and the term "deleted" is just semantic?

No, I'm correcting the claims that this is a bug (or a change) in v12. The behavior being reported is not new. There is a slight change in the dialog that explains what's happening, but it's the same behavior from previous versions. Tracks beyond what's supported get deleted, and tracks beyond your voice count (up to what's supported) are made inactive.

The question to the OP still stands... what version were you running previously?

[TOM@METRO]

So... If an HD session goes to native, it will come back with deleted tracks?

[jeffro]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

So... If an HD session goes to native, it will come back with deleted tracks?

Only if it had more tracks than Pro Tools software supports.

https://www.avid.com/products/pro-to...mparison-table

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by jeffro

Only if it had more tracks than Pro Tools software supports.

https://www.avid.com/products/pro-to...mparison-table

So maybe this change was made in PT11? Or 10? Or 9?

I am 100% certain that this did not happen in 7.4 and 8. Why ... well read on ...

I first got Pro Tools when I enrolled as a mature student in a degree course in 2008.

Pro Tools was one of the main DAWs used on that course, as the company delivering the degree was also a deliverer of the Digidesign Certified training courses right up to 310M and P, and boasted on its roster the first person in Europe to have gained both 310M and 310P certification.

I bought 7.4 LE (as part of the 003 Producer Factory Pro package, 40% educational discount included hardware back then too in the old Digidesign Education Store), and Music Production Toolkit, no way I could justify HD. Bought them both in the grace period for 8LE and MPTK2 free upgrades, having been tipped off by the training facility not to buy sooner because these upgrades were 'coming soon' (chuckle).

But the studios at the training facility were all HD TDM rigs.

I made a lot of use of those facilities to record bands, they had a wider selection of microphones than at the studio I'm involved with, and it was good to have access to try them out. Did a lot of mixing there too. Not many students were all that interested, so another guy and I collaborated to book at least one, and most weeks two, 2pm to 10pm lockouts of the main studio, using our and some other uninterested students' alloted weekly studio time allowance.

Many times when working on stuff I would encounter this poblem when I needed to work away from the training facility's studios and loaded projects into my LE system. LE definitely did not delete tracks back then. It told you that LE couldn't make that many tracks active, and set higher numbered tracks to inactive.

You could then manually set other tracks in LE to inactive to allow you to set some of those inactive tracks to active to work on them. If I remember corectly, tracks that were set to inactive in LE, stayed inactive when loading back up in HD, you had to select them all and reactivate once the poject was loaded up into HD.

I was still hitting these track limits with MPTK2 and LE8, which had higher track and aux counts than 7.4.

The two things, above all else, that persuaded me to upgrade my MPTK2 to Complete Producion Toolkit (again with amazing discount via the Digi EDU store) were OMF import/export, and the HD level audio track and aux counts.

The OMF facility was also important to me because most of the people I collaborated with back then were, like me, long standing Cubase users (back to Atari ST days in my case). Surround sound was an added bonus, but not that vital to me, and in version 8, CPTK did not unlock VCA masters! (Maybe it was only in PT8HD that VCA masters were added as a new feature, I don't recall)

If I worked on something in LE, I would have to remember to take it to the training facility to do an OMF export before I could give it to a collaborator, so it was a pain, as I was trying to do all my work in Pro Tools to speed up learning time. When people OMF'ed stuff back to me, I wouldn't be able to work on it in Pro Tools until I'd imported it via an HD rig at the training facility.

Anyway, the bottom line is this .... I am certain that, back in 7.4/8 days at least, if you loaded a HD project into LE, and that project had more tracks than LE allowed you to have active, those extra tracks were set to inactive.

Logic tells me that it is impossible to create a HD project that has more tracks than HD supports, but again, surely that also was ACTIVE tracks back in the day.

Unfortunately I do not have access to PT8HD these days, but I do still have a working 8LE rig on a G5 Mac. I'll have a root around for a project in my archive that exceeds 8LE permitted ACTIVE track counts and load it up so check what happens.

In fact, I should be able to create one in 11HD, export it to the old ptf. file format, and load that into 8LE.

I'll come back to let you know what happens.

[simonjewel]

Originally Posted by jeffro

Only if it had more tracks than Pro Tools software supports.

https://www.avid.com/products/pro-to...mparison-table

I can certainly understand making any tracks over the limit "inactive" but deleting them is frankly outrageous if that is what you are actually saying.

[guitardom]

This is not expected nor normal behavior. Years past when we had 24 or 32 track limitations in PT, it would just make the extra tracks inactive. Maybe this started with 11 or something not sure as I have been using HD since 8 or so. But deleting the tracks is a serious problem and should not be tolerated!