Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > macOS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 07-04-2020, 03:24 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 14,273
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwixo View Post
This wildly misstates nothing. My 2012 iMac got upgraded thru Catalina. It will not be available for Big Sur as it’s now obsolete, however my Mac Pro, which while first released in 2013 but wasn’t discontinued until 2018 will still receive several future updates, as will my 2014 MacBook Pro. Their OS availability follows in line with their vintage/obsolete designations typically within 1 year. There are a few outlying machines that may get an 8th year of support and I’ve seen a few end at 6.
Do I need to use simpler words? Do you even understand what is about to happen with the ARM transition?

None of what you are going on about is relevant to this thread talking about what might happened in an architecture transition. If you want to state conclusions from past behavior you need to at least be looking at what happened with past architecture transitions. You are looking at updates that do not involve any architecture transitions and trying to draw conclusions about architecture transitions. It's not relevant.

No credible analyst/apple ecosystem pundit expect new OS support on Intel for anything like the number of years you are talking about. And it's a hot question, those folks cannot get Apple execs to give *any* commitment for how many years that support will be provided. But why are so many experts asking those questions when they could just ask you? Obviously everybody else is stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:10 AM
Kwixo Kwixo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Willingboro
Posts: 4
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Do I need to use simpler words? Do you even understand what is about to happen with the ARM transition?

None of what you are going on about is relevant to this thread talking about what might happened in an architecture transition. If you want to state conclusions from past behavior you need to at least be looking at what happened with past architecture transitions. You are looking at updates that do not involve any architecture transitions and trying to draw conclusions about architecture transitions. It's not relevant.

No credible analyst/apple ecosystem pundit expect new OS support on Intel for anything like the number of years you are talking about. And it's a hot question, those folks cannot get Apple execs to give *any* commitment for how many years that support will be provided. But why are so many experts asking those questions when they could just ask you? Obviously everybody else is stupid.
There is really no need for snark or name calling here. After all, this is just a minor disagreement on unreleased technology that nobody has firm answers on. Rosetta 2 won’t face the same limitations technologically as its predecessor. We’ve already seen benchmarks from the devkit running on native x86 code in the non optimized OS with a chip that won’t even be in a desktop that showed decent results. It’s fair to assume those results were colored with the Rosetta emulation as benchmark software is still x86 and not optimized for arm. It’s disingenuous at this point and time to assume that Apple will handicap its users for intel machines, not just for architectural switching reasons, but because they are still releasing intel machines in their product pipeline. It is not to apples advantage, or their users, to end support in 3-4 years as some of the pundits have suggested.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-10-2020, 05:58 PM
GoButtonGuy GoButtonGuy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 29
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwixo View Post
There is really no need for snark or name calling here. After all, this is just a minor disagreement on unreleased technology that nobody has firm answers on. Rosetta 2 won’t face the same limitations technologically as its predecessor. We’ve already seen benchmarks from the devkit running on native x86 code in the non optimized OS with a chip that won’t even be in a desktop that showed decent results. It’s fair to assume those results were colored with the Rosetta emulation as benchmark software is still x86 and not optimized for arm. It’s disingenuous at this point and time to assume that Apple will handicap its users for intel machines, not just for architectural switching reasons, but because they are still releasing intel machines in their product pipeline. It is not to apples advantage, or their users, to end support in 3-4 years as some of the pundits have suggested.
^^^^This.

Apple has told devs Intel OS deployment "for the foreseeable future". There won't be a full transition for two years, best case. Those buying high end Macs today aren't going to be end of life once the transition is complete. Will. Not. Happen. It will be at least a few years after the transition likely longer. With minimal impact they can keep building Intel versions of Mac OS for as long as they like. The limiting factor at that point will be using whatever new services and features that will be incorporated in Apple Silicon that Intel only based apps won't be able to exploit.

One reason they can do this is software development has significantly changed over the last decade and a half since PPC to Intel. Targeting different architectures from a common code base is a normal thing now particularly with *nix variants. It could be done back then but not with the relative ease it has today. Mac OS (and the watches, TVs, phones and tablets) is Darwin (BSD with a Mach kernel variant called XNU). The APIs and UI are abstracted from the core of the OS. That's how you can build for different platforms. The core OS is built for the target architecture while the "Maciness" is the same as it's always been (more or less, over simplification). Comparisons to previous transitions are a good historical perspective but no so much when it comes to advances in software engineering and deployment.

Rosetta 1 was a real time instruction translator. That's why it was so sluggish and not everything would work with it. Rosetta 2 is primarily an install based program that for all intents and purposes translates a native version of the program thus not requiring real time translation. For instances where that's not possible there is a just in time complier. That's similar to the JITs used everyday on modern UI designs on mobile devices. It's far faster and superior to Rosetta 1. My guess would be Rosetta 2 will EOL sooner than Intel OS X as they push devs to at least UB2 native apps. That push is already happening. Wouldn't surprise me if they EOL Rosetta a bit after the full transition. There is already a dev note urging audio code to port to UB2 right now.

This isn't so much Apple transitioning to ARM as it is Apple using some ARM technology. It's Apple licensing some ARM patents, most notably the core structure. The bulk of the design is from Apple. It's not a ARM reference design though you do use ARM assembler and libraries the system is entirely designed by Apple. The scaling for the ARM based RISC design isn't necessarily going to come from the ARM part. It's likely going to be from the SoC components designed by Apple.

Apple has confirmed there will be Thunderbolt on the Apple Silicon Macs.

For Pro Tools users I'd be more concerned with Avid having a fully compatible Apple Silicon version by the time the transition is completed. It's not so much a slam on Avid as it is there is likely to be some pretty significant changes in something like Pro Tools or Media Composer.

Like we did in the olden days and to an extent we do today lock that old rig down and don't use it for anything else until you're sure the transition is OK.
__________________
What happens in Vegas, we make happen...
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:07 PM
HD* HD* is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: -
Posts: 9
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwixo View Post
There is really no need for snark or name calling here. After all, this is just a minor disagreement on unreleased technology that nobody has firm answers on.
You got that right and there is no need to believe anything smartypants ramm is posting. Just put her on the ignore list and you'll be fine. Ramm's just a little wannabe who's trying to look important while being bossy at the same time.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:09 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 20,149
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Darryl is actually pretty knowledgeable. If you cannot handle his personality, just ignore. Your loss.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:40 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 17,518
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD* View Post
You got that right and there is no need to believe anything smartypants ramm is posting. Just put her on the ignore list and you'll be fine. Ramm's just a little wannabe who's trying to look important while being bossy at the same time.
I guess you also believe in cancel culture too right?
Darryl is probably the smartest person here with his technical knowledgeable and if you can't handle the truth I suggest going back to Gearslutz. BTW Darryl is a male.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-10-2020, 05:12 PM
dmitch dmitch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I guess you also believe in cancel culture too right?
Darryl is probably the smartest person here with his technical knowledgeable
That may be. But IMO, being the smartest person in the room doesn't give one license to dispense with common courtesy. The world, and this forum, would be much better places if everyone would refrain from rudeness and treat each other with a reasonable amount of decency and respect. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:44 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 17,518
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitch View Post
That may be. But IMO, being the smartest person in the room doesn't give one license to dispense with common courtesy. The world, and this forum, would be much better places if everyone would refrain from rudeness and treat each other with a reasonable amount of decency and respect. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I've got nothing bad to say about Darryl's delivery - he speaks the truth snowflake. If you can't handle the blunt truth then go back to Gearslutz or wherever else you came from.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-11-2020, 08:59 AM
BCnSTL's Avatar
BCnSTL BCnSTL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Flyover states, USA
Posts: 205
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Geezo. Apple has never given firm answers about when they will release new products or when they might drop support for old ones. They have said they will support Intel Macs "For the foreseeable future" which by any reasonable interpretation means "no change for now" which historically has meant at least 6 years from the last sold-as-new date. Why is that so controversial?

If anything it is a leap-of-logic to conflate Apple's stated ARM transition time of 2 years to their Intel support window - somehow. Intel Macs aren't going to get bricked when an ARM Mac gets released. In any case everyone is free to vote with their money.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-27-2020, 07:33 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 775
Default Re: Macintosh moving to ARM

Well, I was about to forgo the new beach house and purchase a new Mac Pro for my studio and came here for a some info...yikes!

I've read the whole thread and as always, the more I know the less I'm sure of.

It's kinda scary, shelling out just shy of $10k for a machine and not being sure of it's viability in the future...I mean if I'm going to shell out that kind of green, I'd like to feel confident I can get at least 7 years or so from it...maybe by that time the MacBook Pro's will be as fast...

I'm using UAD I/F's through TB 2. On the Apple Store page the Mac Pro is stated to have TB...then I've seen that they will be supporting TB through USB-C...that's a different connector, so I'm not what that's about since I need a traditional TB2 type connector. Any knowledge of that?

Lastly, It seems there are a few on here that have already purchased the new Mac Pro... I'm wondering if they like them. To tell the truth, almost anything would be an improvement at this point.
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1, E5-2690 V2 10 core 3.0G, 32gig 1866 memory, 512G PCIe system drive, 2 1T data drives in Thunderbolt enclosure, OSX 10.10.5, Twin Raven MTi's, Apollo 8 TB, 2 UAD2 Satellite Octo Thunderbolt, RME ADI-4 DD, Neve 5012, 5043, Bricasti M7, 2 PCM 92's, M350, Pro Tools 12.4 HD, PreSonus Studio One 3.5, Logic X, DynAudio BM6 MK 3, BM14S, a bunch of cool mics...1 damned iLok2.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
003 Macintosh Audio JoeyBoomBox 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 06-21-2007 10:41 PM
macintosh processors... pinstudio 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 09-10-2005 12:37 PM
macintosh processors... pinstudio 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 0 09-10-2005 10:14 AM
MacIntosh Plus??? j old school 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 12 08-29-2002 07:57 AM
Macintosh USB Audio In N9YTY Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 02-13-2001 08:21 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:24 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com