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  #11  
Old 02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
PhilBuckle PhilBuckle is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

In the same boat here with a Dual 2.7 PPC and Accel 2.

It's such a lot of money to go up to PCIe and all that we are getting is increased VI performance. (yeah I know that means a great deal to some)

Like others on this list I am not complaining as my rig has served me well and those Accel cards are the best purchase I ever made.

It's more about a workflow I think.
I don't need to have a bunch of VI's running all the time. I do rely on them heavily but I just print them and keep the raw track deactivated.
It's really no hardship. The trick is to commit to a part and move on. If you have to come back and change it you can.
Some VI's don't tax the CPU much. RMX and Addictive Drums are great and I just leave that running all the time.(same with Superior 2)
Omnisphere is ok if you only have 1 and maybe use 4 channels.

The other day I discovered that I had forgotten to print my Omnisphere tracks and the rig was chugging along just fine with RMX, Omnisphere and a bunch of API RTAS plugs and ....yes.........even a Maserati Guit Plug.

So I agree that it's not the end of the road for everyone who is running a G5.
It seems to really affect those who want to keep a bunch of VI's running in one session.
If you can work around that then there's plenty of life left in the old girl.

Damn I just got used to thinking that my machine was a new shiny "king of the hill" powerful beast.
Then those dirty rotten Intel Machines came and kicked sand in her face.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2009, 08:49 PM
KingFish KingFish is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBuckle View Post
In the same boat here with a Dual 2.7 PPC and Accel 2. -----

The other day I discovered that I had forgotten to print my Omnisphere tracks and the rig was chugging along just fine with RMX, Omnisphere and a bunch of API RTAS plugs and ....yes.........even a Maserati Guit Plug.

So I agree that it's not the end of the road for everyone who is running a G5.
In Leopard / PT HD 8 ?

I know it's not the end of the road for our G5, just still trying to make a decision if "Tiger PT 7.4" is the "End of the road" for the G5's life of Upgrades.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2009, 10:27 PM
PhilBuckle PhilBuckle is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Yeah Leopard and PT8 using one processor.
One thing that really helps is adjusting the playback buffer as needed. That was a tip I picked up from a Scott Church video (thanks Scott).

I used to think that the buffer was just "set and forget" but that's not the case.

When I am recording midi I will have it at 256 but if I'm just on playback and finished with my midi parts I will change that buffer much higher. It makes a hugh difference to RTAS performance. Just watch the meter drop!

The down side is an increase in delay comp and I sometimes forget to change the buffer when I decide to record some midi. That messed with me for a while.
Worth having a look at.
Things like Ampeg SVX I will always print. Also ....usually............any of the Maserati plugs.
But also don't forget your Audiosuite plugs.
I am one of those who rarely use them. Not the case anymore.
When I get my bass where I want it with SVX I would normally run the track down and lay it but now it's just a matter of selecting the track and processing with AS. Same with Maserati.

I know people have been doing that for years but I......er.....never thought of it.
It's made a big difference to my workflow.
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2009, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBuckle View Post
Y
I used to think that the buffer was just "set and forget" but that's not the case.
Yes as you say, lowering the buffer whilst recording and then increasing it for mixing is good practice! the only thing to be aware of is changing the buffer mid mix!! as this can effect the delay comp on RTAS plugs. so golden rule is set your buffer before you start adding RTAS plugins in a mix and leave it at that setting till the mix is finished.

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  #15  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:55 AM
theblasters theblasters is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
it would have been nice to know my G5 was gonna not be up to snuff before i invested in PT8

did i miss something somewhere or was i just ol' mr quickdraw mcgraw with my mastercard?
Ditto........ Digi knew that PT8 would have problems on older G5 but it's the money grab they're looking for to pay so called expensive designers

I asked around but Digi wouldn't confirm and wouldn't say in threads on this site that there's a problem with older G5's

Bottom line is if you have a older G5 dual 2.0 you would need to upgrade it would cost $3500 for computer and around $3000 for exchange

Digidesign and Microsoft should get together because the designers/developers are one of the same....
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2009, 06:08 AM
Fidelis Fidelis is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBuckle View Post
Things like Ampeg SVX I will always print. Also ....usually............any of the Maserati plugs.
But also don't forget your Audiosuite plugs.
I am one of those who rarely use them. Not the case anymore.
When I get my bass where I want it with SVX I would normally run the track down and lay it but now it's just a matter of selecting the track and processing with AS. Same with Maserati.

I know people have been doing that for years but I......er.....never thought of it.
It's made a big difference to my workflow.
Sorry Phil, but that sounds like my Mix3 rig / 9600 combo workflow. I moved foward! I don't want to print tracks. It's 2009. I want to be able to change settings on all plugs on the fly, until the mix ends.

Bottom line is my G5 dual 2.0 performed really nice with PT 7.4. With PT 8 it's not the same. At least DIGI guys could let us know that this problems could occur on older machines before we spend money on it.

It's simple like taht:

Minimun setup: G5
RECOMMENDED SETUP: Mac Pro.

Simple.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2009, 01:35 PM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblasters View Post
Ditto........ Digi knew that PT8 would have problems on older G5 but it's the money grab they're looking for to pay so called expensive designers

I asked around but Digi wouldn't confirm and wouldn't say in threads on this site that there's a problem with older G5's

Bottom line is if you have a older G5 dual 2.0 you would need to upgrade it would cost $3500 for computer and around $3000 for exchange

Digidesign and Microsoft should get together because the designers/developers are one of the same....
I'm going to rebut you on this - the problem is that G5's are just too slow to run modern CPU intensive VI's very well. They're an outdated processor.

If you're going to use a particular VI, shouldn't you look at the system requirements for it, to determine how well it would work on your system? For instance, Omnisphere:

Quote:
Mac Recommendations:
• 2.0 GHz or higher processor

• G5 PowerPC compatible - Intel Core2Duo or higher recommended

• OSX 10.4.9 or higher

• AudioUnit, VST 2.4 or RTAS capable host software

• Native Universal Binary for Intel Macs
(emphasis mine to illustrate that they recommend an Intel processor).

And BFD2 - look at the minimum vs. recommended on this page:

http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=53&tab=149
Quote:
Minimum:

Windows XP SP1 or higher, Vista 32, P4 or better CPU (Windows)
OSX 10.4, G5 or Intel CPU (Mac)
1 GB of RAM

Recommended:

2 GB of RAM or more
Fast, multi-core modern Intel or AMD CPU
Again, emphasis mine to illustrate my point. Is it our responsibility to reiterate the info from the manufacturers of these plug-ins? Everyone knows the minimum requirements are typically the absolute lowest they can get them and be able to say 'it works' - but 'it works' means you're probably going to get an instance or two.

I understand where you're coming from, but I wanted to give you our point of view - if you're going to run processor intensive VI's, you should be following the VI manufacturers recommendations.

Does that make sense as to why we aren't going around posting 'warnings'? We like to think that customers understand enough about their systems to know they need to check system requirements for any 3rd party plug-ins if they're going to use them in Pro Tools. Are we wrong in that assumption?
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2009, 01:43 PM
c-tone c-tone is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

DigiTech:

Under PT7, I have found that when using Ampeg SVX, I get a lot of pops and clicks, especially once my RTAS usage meter gets to about halfway up. Based on this thread, I just reduced my processor setting down to use only one processor (on a dual 2.0 G5), and the clicks pretty much stopped, but of course the RTAS meter went way up.

Am I better off using one processor and running as much as I can until get a warning error pop up, or using two and keeping the usage meter down low. Any recommendations?

Right now I am pushing the limits, mixing ITB about 90 voices at 88.2 k, so I need all the power I can get, without pops. :)
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  #19  
Old 02-11-2009, 03:36 PM
PhilBuckle PhilBuckle is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelis View Post
Sorry Phil, but that sounds like my Mix3 rig / 9600 combo workflow. I moved foward! I don't want to print tracks. It's 2009. I want to be able to change settings on all plugs on the fly, until the mix ends.

Bottom line is my G5 dual 2.0 performed really nice with PT 7.4. With PT 8 it's not the same. At least DIGI guys could let us know that this problems could occur on older machines before we spend money on it.

It's simple like taht:

Minimun setup: G5
RECOMMENDED SETUP: Mac Pro.

Simple.
I agree it is like my 9600 and mix3 system and I recently posted saying exactly that after a couple of days with PT8.

I liked that 9600 system. I got a lot of work done.
I'm resigned to the fact that my system is reaching the end of its cycle and I'm once again at the point where I'm going to hang on for a little while and see what both Apple and Digidesign do in regard to hardware.

In the meantime I'm working everyday with a ridiculously inhuman schedule and I seem to be getting everything done and delivering.

Bottom line is you can't blame Digi for progress. I'm glad they are moving forward.
What I will complain about is the cross grade price to PCIe.
That stopped a lot of us changing.
I'd go as far as to say the pricing policy was opportunistic.
Harsh word but there you have it.
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:23 AM
Fidelis Fidelis is offline
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Default Re: Digi-Why was tiger better then Leo using all cores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
I'm going to rebut you on this - the problem is that G5's are just too slow to run modern CPU intensive VI's very well. They're an outdated processor.
Digi, let me make one thing clear. PT8 is great. Period. I loved everything about it, except for the lack of contrast of the new interface (but I loved the new look!).

I'm not using any VI's. I'm using RTAS plugins, normal ones. Why my G5 can handle all this plugins (the same ones) much better in Logic than in PT8? It's worst then PT7.4. That's the only complain I do have. Is my G5 outdated? Yes, I agree, BUT, the same computer, with the same OS (Leopard), with the same plugins, works just fine on Logic (I hate logic BTW) and NOT on PT8.

That's it. We're just wondering what happened...
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