Using real hardware synth in a Pro Tools VI setup

[ionactive]

Evening all..


I have a basic understanding of Pro Tools 11. I have a two PC system (high spec) – one with Pro Tools, the other is a slave (using VE Pro 5). Anyway, the setup up is working well with all manner of VI instruments and sample library etc.

I have set the buffer size to 256 (audio interface) and this seems to keep everything in check. I am aware there is lots of latency compensation going on behind the hood!

I am also aware (but have not used) the concept of hardware latency compensation – but basically understand this to be for effects processers (e.g. routing audio out of Pro Tools - through an effect – and back in again). I think I just about understand how to set the I/O compensation for this (but have never done so). There is also quite a lot on the web about this.

However, I have seen much less about the following:

1) I want to integrate a midi hardware synth (one or more) into my Pro Tools session.
2) I want to deal with the midi latency issue.

I have the synth audio connected via the audio interface. Presently I am not recording the audio, rather I am recording midi (the audio comes from the synth back into pro tools via the audio interface).

There is ‘almost’ no latency (but I can still detect it) – I cannot alter the buffer size in the Playback engine as this is optimised for all the VI / VE Pro 5 stuff. One work around is as follows:

1) Record the synth (againt all the other instruments playing) – but monitor it directly via the audio interface. This ensures that what I ‘intend’ to play is in time with the rest of the music. I do not ‘hear’ a delay.
2) However, in reality what is recorded will be slightly behind the rest of the audio (due to the hardware delay)
3) Measure (by ear or directly) the ‘delay’ and move the hardware track to align with the rest of the audio.

Perhaps another work around is to lower the engine buffer size, record the hardware synth (with no measureable latency – but putting up with the pops and other artefacts from some of the VI’s produced by lowering it). Then print that synth to an audio track (which can then be aligned with the rest of the tracks) and then up the buffer size again when complete… to carry on….

HOWEVER .. is there not a way to compensate for the hardware (noting this is not a reverb insert but a hardware synth) in a more automated way?

What is the best way to set up my synth into a Pro Tools session, where I have a mixture of VI and real hardware, and deal with the latency?

[musicman691]

What I do is to monitor the outboard synth via a separate set of outputs on the mixer I have feeding PT. One set of outputs goes to PT audio in and the second set goes to my monitors. I hear the synth in real time, just like you would if you were playing guitar, piano, or any other acoustic instrument.

What I'm lucky with is having to compensate for MIDI delay which can mess up timing as not all external MIDI hardware has the same delay in responding to MIDI messages as each other. My Yamaha Motif 7 is slow to respond to incoming MIDI but I never record that synth's audio - it's just basically a way to play MIDI into PT. For hardware synths I have a Moog Voyager Rack Mount and a DSI PolyEvolver. Those two are about equal in response.

[ionactive]

Thanks for your comments Jack...

What I did in the end seems to work ...

1) I recorded a basic piece of music with VI's - including using a slave with VE Pro 5. Got a lot of orchestral stuff going on - very heavy so needed some level of buffer.

2) I then wanted to use a Roland external sound module (synth) to add piano. So I record enabled an instrument track (i.e. midi plus aux) - and then set 'low latency monitoring'...

3) I then adjusted my audio box mixer settings so I could 'hear' the Roland directly .... [Interesting aside - it was interesting to then turn off LLM for a short while and listen to both the 'direct' Roland and the 'in direct via PT11' together - you can hear the latency ...just. Anyway, I then turned on LLM again.]

4) I then recorded the piano on the Roland....

Now, my thinking is that this places the midi notes where I want them with no delay to muck up my flow - even fast piano passages .... This has otherwise always been my problem - where there is too much latency it is impossible to play fast runs of notes with any accuracy.

5) I then turned off LLM.....

6) Of course, now when you play the music the piano track is slightly behind the rest because of the latency ...

7) I then used the midi event setting (for the track) to add a (-) negative latency value (which equaled the total latency reported by Pro Tools - as numbers of samples)...

8) Then played the track again - perfect - all in sync

*******************

Thinking about what you said in your post - I think by me adding the (-) negative latency to the Roland midi track - I am getting an approximate solution - which works for my ears. However, you point out that different bits of hardware will have their own intrinsic latency. So perhaps a better approach is that I measure the latency directly instead.

Anyway - all good stuff!

[LSW]

You're both world's ahead of me with all this, but I would like to comment just from my own experience.

FIrst is the same, to monitor the outboard instrument directly. Now, from my experience, I've never had a problem recording the MIDI data - it's always landed in the right spots. Keep in mind though that I rarely have complex arrangements either.

Now when it comes time to playback, I can see where the recorded MIDI triggering the outboard synth would produce that little bit of latency you describe.

The only thing I may do different depends on whether the MIDI data was where it was supposed to be and if the latency is consistent. If the MIDI was correct, I would leave it as is and record the synth to an audio track. Then I would nudge the audio. Actually, even if the latency wasn't consistent, I would still be inclined to work with the audio track - split it into separate regions if needed, and take advantage of elastic audio to tighten up the various regions.

I would also keep a few versions of the MIDI track - the original with no quantizing, make a copy if I wanted to quantize, then another that would include and edits to compensate for latency. That way all bases are covered!