Pro Tools sticky performance.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

I am in a hotelroom right now with a HUGE DJ/Producer whom you All heard of even if you don't like EDM music and we are working in PTHD 11 on a MBP Retina 512 GB 16 GB ram with over 120 tracks and possibly 25 VI and 95 plugins with only the ILOK2 key and eLicenser and One UAD-2 Quad Satellite unit, all recorded to internal drive and now we are mixing and adding stuff, no external drives and everything is Lightning Fast!! No need for extenal drives here We even have ALL the samples on the desktop and not one glitch .. Not one!

Of course this is only when we are not in the studio and need to set up the sessions/songs for live performance and I am extremely happy to report this masterful performqnce. Everything is fully optimized of course and we domise the disk cache in HD BUT last weekend we did the same on the same computer with Vanilla PT11 and all we needed to "fix" was a few bonced down VI for lower CPU use, on that session didn't have Disk Cache as I forgot to take the correct ilok with me hence Vanilla but damn these MBP's are sick!

Man, that is so incredibly sick! I wish mine was like that! I remember asking you in another thread, but, what year MBPr, OSX, and PT version are you using for this? Also, you said you are using the disk cache feature?

I have that feature, and use it. Just to make sure, I have mine at 2GB right now..

Should I be using only the amount I need for audio? I heard it doesn't make a difference to use more RAM than needed.

Also, no sticky faders during record or any of that? What buffer size too? Ironically, I just ran into the AAE 6106 (I think?) error saying to remove some plugins yadda yadda.. I have maybe 12 plugs on this session, most of which are stock Digi plugs.... This is quite ridiculous hahahhahahahah

[Southsidemusic]

Originally Posted by Thenewexhibit

Man, that is so incredibly sick! I wish mine was like that! I remember asking you in another thread, but, what year MBPr, OSX, and PT version are you using for this? Also, you said you are using the disk cache feature?

I have that feature, and use it. Just to make sure, I have mine at 2GB right now..

Should I be using only the amount I need for audio? I heard it doesn't make a difference to use more RAM than needed.

Also, no sticky faders during record or any of that? What buffer size too? Ironically, I just ran into the AAE 6106 (I think?) error saying to remove some plugins yadda yadda.. I have maybe 12 plugs on this session, most of which are stock Digi plugs.... This is quite ridiculous hahahhahahahah

Hey

Its a 2014 MBP Retina 2.6 GHz with OSX 10.9.5 and Pro Tools 11.3.1

We have our disk cache at 5GB so we are sure we have enough. There is another 11GB for OS and graphics etc.

I think 2 GB is on the low end but as always it depends on the size of your session, the one we just finished tonite was about 29GB before deleting unused files 10 times to take effect (bug) and after cleaning up a bit it the audio session folder is now 9GB so pretty large but at 48/32 floating point it is a normal size for 122 tracks plus 16 Aux tracks and automation everywhere

and about 94 plugins after bonce down the VI's so set the buffer to 1024 or 512 and 4-5 GB cache. You need to test that out for your setup. We have mixed and fixed this huge track session on the mac internal audio card and it sounds seriously awesome if our ears haven't gone to crap

Will play this mix tonight in a huge arena with 38.000 people and they will let us know if its a good or a great song and sound

We mixed the whole session in headphones aswell so nothing to drain CPU on the MBP and just the UAD-2 Quad Satellite connected for the plugins we used from UA.

No stickie graphics BUT until we bounced down a few ping pong automation delays we have a few Skewed faders that looked like they had been broken off like matchsticks and patched badly back together. After the bounced delays we got rid of that.

Just to make sure, try a few different sizes and screen resolutions aswell since that can make the graphics skewed with Retina screens and PT11.3 and above

We ran 11.2.1 super stable but we updated Eucon and had to go to 11.3.1.

Regarding the -6101 errors I think you meant we have had a few at this high track count and plugin count but changing the Buffer size to 1024 fixed that easily. Don't need any zero latency recording when we already recorded everything in our main studio so now we only run audio out from PT, nothing coming in after recordings been done.

I can list all our VI and plugins if you want to know

[Bill Denton]

And, as usual...

Do you have any other applications, such as a web browser, or any other applications running while you are trying to use Pro Tools.

As with most high-end professional software, Pro Tools prefers to be the only application running, and a variety of problems can result if you have other applications running...

[Darryl Ramm]

A few thoughts.

Since you have HD you might as well make your timeline cache larger, as Chris said. No not that you need to IO performance or this will relate to this problem, but for future purposes you have 16GB, likely largely being unused, so just go ahead and set it up right now.

For any debugging/especially now you have seen a CPU error. Make sure that ignore errors is *not* checked in the playback engine dialog. You want to see any and every error you an to help while debugging.

And I have not had time to go chase other threads on UI stickiness. But one thing I would want to check is if the discrete GPU is being used (basically uncheck automatic graphics setting in Systems preferences>Energy and also see http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202053). There have been several general problems with lagginess sometimes related to GPU issues with recent MBP computers.

Again, to flog a dead horse, at least while troubleshooting make sure *every* single last systems optimization has been done, WiFi disabled, Bluetooth disabled, etc. And make sure you are following the correct optimizations instructions for your OS X version.

I would also be sure to move aside all third party plugins while tryign to troubleshoot this problem, just move them all out of the AAX folder and Pro Tools will magically put back it's standard plugins. Yes even if not being used they can cause problems. Do that, trash prefs and try again.

What plugins *are* being used in a session? With problems like this (slow UI, only in record, and now a CPU error...mmm) I would want to make sure you are not running into the old bugbear denormalization problem causing excess and/or spiking CPU usage... a classic problem with some plugins like Sansamp.

You don't have any control surfaces or MIDI devices connected do you? if so physically unplug them all, reboot, try again.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

Hey

Its a 2014 MBP Retina 2.6 GHz with OSX 10.9.5 and Pro Tools 11.3.1

We have our disk cache at 5GB so we are sure we have enough. There is another 11GB for OS and graphics etc.

I think 2 GB is on the low end but as always it depends on the size of your session, the one we just finished tonite was about 29GB before deleting unused files 10 times to take effect (bug) and after cleaning up a bit it the audio session folder is now 9GB so pretty large but at 48/32 floating point it is a normal size for 122 tracks plus 16 Aux tracks and automation everywhere

and about 94 plugins after bonce down the VI's so set the buffer to 1024 or 512 and 4-5 GB cache. You need to test that out for your setup. We have mixed and fixed this huge track session on the mac internal audio card and it sounds seriously awesome if our ears haven't gone to crap

Will play this mix tonight in a huge arena with 38.000 people and they will let us know if its a good or a great song and sound

We mixed the whole session in headphones aswell so nothing to drain CPU on the MBP and just the UAD-2 Quad Satellite connected for the plugins we used from UA.

No stickie graphics BUT until we bounced down a few ping pong automation delays we have a few Skewed faders that looked like they had been broken off like matchsticks and patched badly back together. After the bounced delays we got rid of that.

Just to make sure, try a few different sizes and screen resolutions aswell since that can make the graphics skewed with Retina screens and PT11.3 and above

We ran 11.2.1 super stable but we updated Eucon and had to go to 11.3.1.

Regarding the -6101 errors I think you meant we have had a few at this high track count and plugin count but changing the Buffer size to 1024 fixed that easily. Don't need any zero latency recording when we already recorded everything in our main studio so now we only run audio out from PT, nothing coming in after recordings been done.

I can list all our VI and plugins if you want to know

Cool! Thanks for getting back to me about this.

And, Congrats on working with that artist! That sounds like a pretty big project! I don't listen to EDM, but can respect that for sure!

As far as screen resolutions, I have tried the (Best Retina) setting, which I'm currently using now, and I have tried the next size down 1680 x 1050. Both seem to have the same performance. What resolution are you using?

Yeah, as far as plugins, it told me to remove some plugins. Like I said, 8 tracks of audio with digi eq's, a couple of them have the trim plugin so that I can use the polarity button (which is another issue... PUT A POLARITY BUTTON IN THE MIXER WINDOW PT!!!! ) and 1 aux track with slate VBC's Grey, and one CLA 76.

I can't imagine that this should be a problem at a 32 buffer. I have a friend who tracked a band at 32, and started mixing the project without even changing a thing with no issues, granted, he's on a different OS.

Also, did your MBPr come with Mavericks?

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

And, as usual...

Do you have any other applications, such as a web browser, or any other applications running while you are trying to use Pro Tools.

As with most high-end professional software, Pro Tools prefers to be the only application running, and a variety of problems can result if you have other applications running...

I have a safari window or two open, but minimized, and the wifi is off. However, There wasn't any performance difference between that and having the internet on with windows open etc.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

A few thoughts.

Since you have HD you might as well make your timeline cache larger, as Chris said. No not that you need to IO performance or this will relate to this problem, but for future purposes you have 16GB, likely largely being unused, so just go ahead and set it up right now.

For any debugging/especially now you have seen a CPU error. Make sure that ignore errors is *not* checked in the playback engine dialog. You want to see any and every error you an to help while debugging.

And I have not had time to go chase other threads on UI stickiness. But one thing I would want to check is if the discrete GPU is being used (basically uncheck automatic graphics setting in Systems preferences>Energy and also see http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202053). There have been several general problems with lagginess sometimes related to GPU issues with recent MBP computers.

Again, to flog a dead horse, at least while troubleshooting make sure *every* single last systems optimization has been done, WiFi disabled, Bluetooth disabled, etc. And make sure you are following the correct optimizations instructions for your OS X version.

I would also be sure to move aside all third party plugins while tryign to troubleshoot this problem, just move them all out of the AAX folder and Pro Tools will magically put back it's standard plugins. Yes even if not being used they can cause problems. Do that, trash prefs and try again.

What plugins *are* being used in a session? With problems like this (slow UI, only in record, and now a CPU error...mmm) I would want to make sure you are not running into the old bugbear denormalization problem causing excess and/or spiking CPU usage... a classic problem with some plugins like Sansamp.

You don't have any control surfaces or MIDI devices connected do you? if so physically unplug them all, reboot, try again.

I'll definitely do a larger time line cache, however, I did try it to around 5, and there was no difference in performance, and since the session would only put the audio in the cache, I figured more RAM for the computer would be better. Is that not the case?

I'm using stock digi eq's, some trim plugins for polarity reversal, one CLA 76, and one slate VBC Grey.

I would definitely like to try removing plugins. How would I go about doing that? Do I have to delete them, or just drag them onto the desktop or something for the time being? Which plugins should I try, since sans amp has been known to cause issues too?

Here's another fun discovery... When I got this computer before the new year, my computer was a little laggy with just browsing the internet, and I came across this post, and followed the directions:
https://david.gyttja.com/2013/01/21/...a-macbook-pro/
It fixed my screen lag, and seemed to help pro tools too.

Now, I used to have an issue where it was just send faders that were laggy (this was on a big session too). Eventually, I think that sorted itself out, perhaps after the directions up above? Can't remember, BUT, I was recording guitar parts on the mix with lots of automation and plugs at 32 buffer with not one hiccup.

Anyway, fast forward, Faders started getting sticky again (in all fairness, can't remember if I had updated PT at the time or not. I was using 11.2.1 a lot, so that's why I want to try it again. So, I noticed that if I closed the edit window, OR the cursor went beyond the the visible clips, faders would be fine again. Switching resolutions seemed to help this, but, I figured I would try the directions up above again, so, I did that yesterday, and now, I can leave the edit window open during record with no problems IF it's zoomed out far to see the big picture, but, if I zoom in close to the files being recorded and the cursor is past what I can see, it gets MEGA laggy.

I know I'm rambling a lot, and I apologize for that. I hope all of this makes sense to you guys. Just so much weird stuff, I don't know where to start hahahah.

OH, and, I noticed when I open Slate's Trigger 2, or SSD 4 Platinum, and adjust the faders or knobs in the plugins, or on the PT mixer, that makes everything lag like crazy too. In one session, SSD4 even randomly quit PT on me numerous times. Perhaps these 3rd party plugs are a problem?

Anyway, sorry to spit so much out right now. If you have any questions, or need me to clear something up, let me know.

OH, and as far as anything else hooked up, I'm using an external Mac Keyboard and mouse running off of one USB 3 port. I seem to remember testing without this stuff though with the same performance.

Mike.

P.S. Boy did I just ramble......

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by Thenewexhibit

I have a safari window or two open, but minimized, and the wifi is off. However, There wasn't any performance difference between that and having the internet on with windows open etc.

And that is a huge no-no...

Web browsers are tremendous memory hogs, and they are constantly doing crap, even when minimized.

Sorry, but Pro Tools really must be the only application running...that's just the way it is with any pro software.

Close all instances of Safari, and make sure nothing else is running and you may well see your problems go away...

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

And that is a huge no-no...

Web browsers are tremendous memory hogs, and they are constantly doing crap, even when minimized.

Sorry, but Pro Tools really must be the only application running...that's just the way it is with any pro software.

Close all instances of Safari, and make sure nothing else is running and you may well see your problems go away...

Hey, Bill,

Thanks for getting back to me! Unfortunately, I tried it numerous ways having this stuff open/closed/minimized/off/on, and none of it made any difference. I know pro softwares may recommend this, but I've worked on systems leaving wifi on, and even taking breaks to surf with clients, and there has never been an issue, granted these were different Macs, but similar specs. Perhaps we got lucky, but something tells me people do the same with no problems too; say when you need to look something up for a client on the fly as a reference.

[Darryl Ramm]

I already described how to remove third party plugins, but again just drag all plugins out of the current plugin folder (to any location/folder it does not matter) and then start pro tools, it will magically put back the standard plugins. Then test to see if things appear better. If they do you can put third party plugins back in batches and try to find which one(s) cause problems.

You have 16 GB of memory and small sessions, unless there is a horrific bug somewhere you don't need all that memory and might as well make the timeline cache bigger. As I said before, that is unlikely to have any effect on this problem.

If doing things like resetting pram helped before try that again.

Check the GPU/energy settings and see if Pro Tools is even using the GPU.